Ukraine, Bitcoin, and History

During the protests in Ukraine, several articles were written about protesters asking for donations in Bitcoin. Two points were being made: one, this was a great way for people around the world to support the protesters, especially when moving money in and out of Ukraine was becoming increasingly difficult, and second, how it was disappointing that they had received less Bitcoin than the football fan who famously made over $20,000 by getting his Bitcoin sign, with QR code, on ESPN.

But I don't think that's very important, I don't think it made any difference, I don't think it was a good idea, and I'm glad I didn't send any money. I know, I wanted to start talking about politics because of how I believe Bitcoin can change the world. So what better way to start than by talking about how it can't?

Of course, these articles were posted before Russia annexed Crimea, and before a lot of details about the strange mix of parties and interests that took over Ukraine became more widely known.

Clearly the majority of protestors were simply unhappy with President Viktor Yanukovych. Their resentments included concerns about his relationship with Moscow and with general corruption. But some disturbing groups were also involved in the protests, and now play a role in the new government established after the former president fled the country.

These groups are often referred to as "right-wing" or "ultra-right-wing", but I will refrain from calling them that. There are many conservative parties in the world that might be colloquially referred to as "right-wing" and there is nothing wrong with these parties. The parties and groups I am referring to here are something else entirely.

I don't mean to be oblique, but I want to forestall any attempt to apply Godwin's law. Because when you are talking about groups and parties composed of people were are descended from, inspired by, and sometimes actually including, members of the Waffen SS and the Nazi party, then Godwin's law does not apply. These are not people to be compared to Nazis, these are actual, real Nazis. These are the true anti-semites, although the term has been so overused and misused in recent times to the extent it has been shamefully cheapened. These are the real fascists, and I used the word plainly, not as what John Michael Greer would describe as a "snarl word".

As many are now aware, in 1954, Soviet First Secretary Nikita Khrushchev administratively transferred Crimea from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, a bureaucratic move that made almost no difference to anyone. Indeed, if, in Canada, Labrador was to be administratively transferred from Newfoundland to Québec, this would have a greater political impact than the transfer done by Khrushchev.

It is an accident of history that Crimea ended up a part of a new country called Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union. That doesn't give anyone the right to invade and occupy the territory, but it does give some perspective.

I don't like Russia's government and policies. Vladimir Putin may be a de facto dictator, homophobe and master manipulator, but when he talks about Ukrainian Nazis, he's not just blustering, he's telling the truth. I don't want people in the Ukraine or Crimea to suffer. I hope a peaceful end is eventually reached. I also don't want a cent of my money to reach the thugs in Ukraine trying to grasp at the levers of power, and desperately trying to recreate the horrors of the past.

But how did this all start? It started because the government of Ukraine was bankrupt, and corrupt, and this not only breeds discontent, it gives extreme elements more of a chance to infiltrate society and spread their message. When people lack hope, they are more likely to listen to extreme messages. This isn't unique, we've seen the same thing in Greece with Golden Dawn, and similar movements, large or small, throughout Europe.

Maybe if Bitcoin, or something like it, had been available 10 years ago, other options might have been available to the people. They might have been able to sustain businesses through greater international sales, services, supply contracts, and other import/export arrangements, while also developing a more robust local economy free from interference from the state.

I won't pretend that Bitcoin is a simple fix that could have solved everyone's problems, but it would have given people more options, more freedom, and more flexibility. Sending Bitcoin donations to Ukraine today is not likely to help anyone, and could actually make things worse, but Bitcoin might provide more options to other peoples, in other lands, in the future.



  • siamboundsiambound Member Posts: 3
    Not sure actually where this he was going with this but I guess its to let everybody know that somehow if you support the zionist movement you are the smartest person in the room.Well actually I will take Putin anytime over Obama.While Obama has his gay day in the whitehouse where he invites the perverts to hold sway,Putin meets with Russian religious leaders to stress the importance of a faith based cultures foundation.Obamas goal of the destruction of the US is well on its way to fruition.That's why I am investing money in this project that hopefully one day do its part in restoring the US to greatness.Not surprising i am being told that this will be closed to US investors.Obama is taking every last freedom we once had to fulfill his dream of a marxist utopia.The jews play a crucial part in his plan.All heads of the fed hold dual citizenships of both the US and Israel.Where do you think their loyalty lies?If your really want the truth about the nazis do your own research and do not take every word the zionist media tells you as the truth.
  • cmasoncmason Member Posts: 17

    Well, I guess I must be doing something right, if that's the response I'm going to get. Thanks for supporting my argument by showing up. Anti-semitism, homophobia, attempts to defend the Nazis. I'm sure Holocaust denial is next.

    Btw, if Obama is a marxist, than Richard Nixon was to the left of Stalin.

    This type of ranting, incoherent anti-semitism reminds me of an article I read this morning in the LA Times. Some of the groups I was mentioned above were apparently distributing copies of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in Independence Square, while senior US officials, including John McCain were visiting. Charming.,0,7664312.story

    p.s. Please don't ban this individual. People need to see this type of thing for themselves, so they cannot say later they didn't know.
  • siamboundsiambound Member Posts: 3
    LOL It never fails that one of two cards will always be played.The race card or the holocaust card.It is a way to stop debate when the truth starts to come out.By the way the last time i saw McCain he was having his picture took with al qaeda leaders in Syria.If he is someone you respect then,"LUCY YOU HAVE SOME XPLAINING TO DO".
  • JasperJasper Eindhoven, the NetherlandsMember Posts: 514 ✭✭✭
    @siambound you have an oversimplified image of the world, and are influencable by propaganda. If you dont want to be used as a tool, i suggest you learn some more.

    Obama has limited power, and the US is largely a patchwork of interests, though with the level of information the NSA is collecting, they may all be puppets soon.

    Also just because some Jews work in the status quo,(and they *do* seem to be overrepresented) doesnt mean anything about Jews in general. Similar for Mormons.
  • adamstom90adamstom90 Member Posts: 1
    More than 30 residents of Kiev have took part in a peaceful protest against the referendum March 16, 2014, speaking for the integrity of Ukraine. The rally was organised by the initiative facebook group "The Last World War".
    Participants of the rally got undressed on the steps of the City Hall of the capital trying to attract public attention to the agression of the Russian armed forces on the Crimean Peninsula."Peace to the World", "No to the war", "Putin - no!" was shouted by the protesters .
    Also worth mentioning that the participants of the rally organized raising of money to support the Crimean population who have suffered of Putin's annexation. Fund-raising occurs in the form of popular Cryptocurrency: Bitcoin and Dogecoin.
    Earlier, the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars urged Crimean residents for a boycott of the referendum.
    On Friday, the Constitutional Court of Ukraine decided that all the actions of the Parliament of autonomy, including actions for the referendum, do not correspond to the Constitution of Ukraine .
  • cmasoncmason Member Posts: 17

    I don't see how stripping is going to help, although I suppose it's good it's not just women. Some might remember the whole Femen fiasco:

    What I would like to see is some of these protestors also protesting against anti-semitism and nazism. Recognize that there are bad actors using your protests for their own ends and denounce them. Say that this is something you will not tolerate either today, or ideally, in a new Ukraine you hope to establish.

    That's something a lot of people might want to support and donate to.
  • siamboundsiambound Member Posts: 3
    Jasper I appreciate your insights.Let me say that i do believe people like Alex Jones,Jesse Ventura are shills who spread disinformation and as you say propaganda to stir emotions and point people in the wrong direction.I respect the opinions of people like Greg Hunter and Gerald Celente.Cryptocurrencies were started by people who are tired of being told by governments what they can and cannot do and intellectuals who tell them what to think when they do it.See idiot above.I believe the US goven. was behind the the theft of bitcoins on the silk road and also the collapse of Mt. Gox.What is going on in Syria and the Crimera is trying to protect the petro dollar and they could care less about peoples rights and freedom.The dollar ponzi scheme is coming to an end and war is their only way out.That is why new ways of barter must be found and Ethereum is an important part.What is your thoughts on this?
  • JasperJasper Eindhoven, the NetherlandsMember Posts: 514 ✭✭✭
    Sorry, i sometimes come out a bit harsh. Sometimes it helps to not dance around the subject though.

    Sometimes i feel the undertone of Russias somewhat homophobic stance is that -well- ultimately in the West have freedom.. to fuck each other in the butt and consume. Not true lifestyle freedom. Some regulations seem to be directly against lifestyle, potentially, but i am not clear on how it works in practice. The regulations of course, to large extent also help ensure safety/quality. Economic implications of regulations and lifestyle modification are hard to separate. Also do wonder what would happen if such different lifestyles had much more volume.

    I dont think cmason is an idiot. But if the claim of neonazis(and similar) is wrong, and you call for denounciation, you're essentially propagating the claim. And if they actually followed it, that would water down their message?

    From what i read the US govt holds(/held? sold them?) silk roads bitcoins from when they arrested the head. Doesnt seem particularly mysterious to me. If there was another theft, i dont know what their motive would be, i dont think 'discredit bitcoin' would be enough. Also havent heard anything around the official story round DPR being incorrect. I mean it could be wrong, but i dont hold such opinions without evidence.

    Generally, i find myself not knowing enough about shit. The problem is that i have met too many people who clearly took on opinions without looking, and some conspiracy websites out there are for making money. But i'll look at what Greg Hunter and Gerald Celente are like. The thing i can really say strongly is that you shouldnt believe to know things easily. Knowing things is hard.

    Anyway, about bitcoin, ethereum being a game changer in this. So far, mass infiltration by the NSA doesnt seem to have happened. *However* evidently they will try to do it

    That means that any approach with crypto as game changers is dependent on enough of the machines not getting infected. One approach is to try secure our main computers. Not enough, i reckon, we need special easy-to-use operating systems/devices aimed at security and a bunch of software(communication, browsing, cryptocurrencies) in particular. The Raspberry Pi could be oriented at this, if devices are particularly designed for it, i suggest having it as stateless as possible, excepting the SD card.

    ...And then we need to get the devices and software in peoples hands too. Lack of linux distros is our indicator there. The same method as in the past doesnt work. Our position is not very good, even with these systems. Our governments are 'in on it' or weak, and frankly, the general public is largely what keeps it going that way.

    The consequences of failing is dire, by the way. If this can be normalized.. The scariest prospect is being forced to have implants in twenty years, scarier than war, in my mind. But even outside those two scenarios, even just the entire knowledge of the social network and potential for cultural and social dominance over people that can give...
  • dianadsouzadianadsouza Member Posts: 4
    The head of the National Securities and Stock Market Commission (SSMCS), Timur Khromaev announced via Facebook on July 20. Ukraine’s Financial Stability Council now supports a concept for cryptocurrency regulations.
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