POS vs POI

I was reading the blog which mentioned eventually changing the mining from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake eventually.
Would not Proof of Importance be better?
For example a deposit is vested after 24 hours.
The current balance could be compared to the vested balance.
Accounts that perform more transactions, incoming and outgoing, would have more importance than an account that was inactive. And receive more rewards for their activity.

Comments

  • GeorgeHallamGeorgeHallam Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 229 admin
    Got any whitepaper links for PoI?
  • startrekstartrek Member Posts: 2

    Got any whitepaper links for PoI?

    This is the consensus of NEM, you might want to ask in the forum, they have not yet released 100% of the code.
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    edited March 2015
    No whitepaper, but yes this is the consensus of nem. I doubt they will release the code anytime soon. But my description is basically how it works.
  • 21xhipster21xhipster Milky WayMember Posts: 15 ✭✭
    I understand why they don't want to open the code.. But i don't understand why they don't want to issue the paper... So Proof of importance for now is like a myth and there is no proof that it is exist.
  • chrisethchriseth Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    So I could increase my importance by sending funds back and forth between two of my accounts without any purpose? Sounds like this generates unneeded stress on the network...
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    edited March 2015
    it works, it has been in beta test for some time now, and they have figured out a way to prevent gaming the system
    I am certain ethereum developers could mull it over and know what and how to do it
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    edited May 2015
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13

    Got any whitepaper links for PoI?

    The whitepaper is here
    blog.nem.io/nem-technical-report/
  • tagfutagfu Member Posts: 2
    Skimming the whitepaper now. One part I'm not getting:
    Some actors can boost their importance by splitting their accounts or or sending transactions to other accounts to mimic economic activity. Because PoI scores sum to unity, other rational actors should take the same actions. This would cause the expected benefit to disappear. (37)
    By "take the same actions" do they mean that faking some share of your transactions becomes the equilibrium, or that normal economic activity will drown out any advantage to be gained through fakery?
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    edited May 2015
    I think there was some difficulty in translation in that part. The writers are German and Japanese. I would suggest asking the authors here. They are helpful and friendly.
    https://muut.com/neweconomy#!/nem-dev-updates
    or here
    https://forum.ournem.com/technical-discussion/nem-technical-reference-feedback-thread/
    Post edited by Draugh on
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    From Makoto
    "Normal economic activity should make this attack irrelevant. I was specifically referring to the case where in the absence of economic activity, an actor used their XEM in an optimal way to boost their score. In that case, every rational actor would do the same, so there would be no benefit."
  • tagfutagfu Member Posts: 2
    Ah, thanks for relaying my question!
  • levilevi Member Posts: 11
    Doesn't POS and POI, both, make it hard for new people to join the community?
  • NEMofficialNEMofficial Member Posts: 2
    The way that importance scores are calculated for PoI makes it more equal than PoS. PoS or PoI are probably much, much easier for people to join than PoW (no $80,000/month electric bills or requirement to move to rural China).

    That being said, for 99.9999% of users, no one will care about harvesting. NEM's client-server architecture makes it easy for anyone to just connect to a publicly available server safely, without having to worry about running their own node or harvesting blocks.
  • BluefinBluefin Member Posts: 47
    levi said:

    Doesn't POS and POI, both, make it hard for new people to join the community?

    It is transparent to the user.
  • DraughDraugh Member Posts: 13
    Disregard my previous comments. I have seen evidence that POI and NEM is a fraud. The information will be published soon I am told.
  • NEMofficialNEMofficial Member Posts: 2
    Like what evidence? It is very serious to accuse people of fraud. We work very hard to create a system that is well engineered and it is more than just a little rude to randomly post comments degrading our work.
  • reubenreuben Member Posts: 3
    Draugh said:

    Disregard my previous comments. I have seen evidence that POI and NEM is a fraud. The information will be published soon I am told.

    I was a NEMStake holder (that has already redeemed hence the past tense). My XEM that I got from my stake is now worth a whole lot less than when I bought it for. Yet, I think this is a very irresponsible statement to make. If you are going to allege fraud, then you should back it up.

    Almost all coins have some sort of controversy. Ethereum with their 'wasted funding', Dash (formerly known as DarkCoin), with their error in recalculating block difficulty in its early days but I think you will find it hard to call these projects scams. Poorly managed maybe, but fraud...

    NEM like these other projects, had its own fair share of drama.

    Due to their early distribution method, to give XEM stakes away for free (way back before even it was launched), this was highly abused and many created sock puppets to get more free coins including their 'leader' UtopianFuture back then. You can read more here. UtopianFuture dropped out and was never seen again while the key members of the project carried on without him. A lot of these sock puppets were identified using IPs, browser fingerprints and taint analysis which was a very tiresome process and their stakes revoked (and obviously making some people unhappy).

    The whitepaper is out for POI and it will eventually be open source. It may be unproven, but in some ways so is PoS. Both POI and POS have running implementations and have been tested. Does that make PoS (the proposed method of securing Ethereum in Serenity) a scam? POI may have some work to do to get proper recognition but the allegation of fraud which implies intentional fault built in, is frankly, unwarranted.

  • shawnlearyshawnleary Member Posts: 20
    Wow that escalated quickly. NEM is no more fraudulent than Ethereum is. I would suggest less so in that they actually launched with a GUI and didn't crowdfund to the massive extent ETH did.
  • reubenreuben Member Posts: 3
    Bluefin said:

    levi said:

    Doesn't POS and POI, both, make it hard for new people to join the community?

    It is transparent to the user.
    Well with POI, it's hard to get 'rich' via harvesting with it as to get a higher 'importance' score you need to spend it. POI rewards economic participation. POS rewards just holding. This is the problem that POI hopes to solve which is to disincentivize hoarding.

    This no worse to let's say POW in BitCoin, which if you aren't buying off an exchange, requires you to buy expensive specialist hardware that won't even net you 1 coin while driving up your electricity bill unless you have economies of scale.
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