The correct way of powering the risers for the 470/480

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Comments

  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @restless then be happy, because it's better if your riser only uses 12V. Much more robustness from the PSU side.
    It is not by accident that the servers and industrial machines need only 12V (or 24V) from the PSU.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Just for the record guys, I tried feeding the 3.3V voltage regulator from 12V on a regular USB riser and it gets very hot already during boot up. I also tried another 3.3V voltage regulator, but it gets just as hot as the original one.

    Conclusion:
    Only switching type regulation work for 12V -> 3.3V on the riser like on the 6pin type USB riser.
    With the regular molex USB riser 5V is necessary.
  • wirelessnet2wirelessnet2 Member Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    patrik2 said:

    @Zorg33

    Take a look at any USB riser.
    There is a 1084LM 3.3V voltage regulator on all of them that converts 5V from the molex to 3.3V.
    So you DO NEED 5V on USB riser! But that is only 1-2W per card, so you can use your whatever weak primary PSU 5V line for that. And you only need to take the 12V from the secondary strong PSU


    That's exactly what I did! ^^
    umm... I would never do that. Different cards have different wiring configs, and it may cause PSU backfeed. Trust me, its bad. I have had it happen before. Both power supplies blow up (like... almost literally they smoke like crazy and smell like shit and the breaker trips), and your hardware may be at danger
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    Only if the 12V lines of the 2 PSUs get connected. Otherwise no problem.
  • patrik2patrik2 Member Posts: 156 ✭✭
    I used the same single powerful PSU to power up risers and everything else
  • nhandonhando Member Posts: 82
    I know the guy who sell version 6 who live in California. PM me for details but the riser version # would be listed right on the FAT riser board piece. 80% of issues with cable melting or SATA ports blowing up, etc is with bad risers and their cheap thickly insulated but using cheap copper inside. They would just melt if you're trying to Dual mine, heavily OC or run the 480s. I'm at 4GH plus now and most of my headaches have been with crappy risers especially from my rookie start with the skinny risers and then Version 3s. Now I will only stick to quality risers because the crappy ones, don't just simply die. They give you daily headaches and odd symptom like slow performance, system lockup even when part of their cable melted, they may still work and then stop working appearing like you lost a GPU until you reboot, etc. It's best to get the right risers from the beginning and never have to deal with the headache and always start by Dual mining or your max OC level and then feel the MOLEX to SATA cable to see if it's able to handle the load. If it's warm or hot, trash it or try to get your money back. Those will be the problematic ones.
  • kristofferjonkristofferjon Sagittarius AMember Posts: 77 ✭✭
    Is there any reason not to power the risers directly from the PSU rather than using SATA to Molex cables?

    Am I missing something here?
  • MarlynNevesMarlynNeves Member Posts: 55
    Hello guys! Sorry I'm beginner ...
    The riser x1 to x16 must be powered by the Sata connector on all RX 480 models?
    I have a Red Devil, you can tell whether to use the SATA connector in this model? There is some risk in using it?

    I want buy this model on photo... its good?


  • nhandonhando Member Posts: 82

    Is there any reason not to power the risers directly from the PSU rather than using SATA to Molex cables?

    Am I missing something here?

    You have limited MOLEX connection from your PSU. You can go Direct Molex from PSU to the riser but more than likely you will have more SATA connections. You can use both to power the risers. Ideally you can use 2 Molex connection to the the power risers and the remaining 4 can be power by SATA, 1 per string.
  • chuckfeastchuckfeast Member Posts: 19

    Is there any reason not to power the risers directly from the PSU rather than using SATA to Molex cables?

    Am I missing something here?

    As a theoretical matter, no, there is no reason to use anything other than Molex direct from the PSU. One card per string.

    As a practical matter, most people don't have a PSU with six seperate molex strings. Hence the common use of other solutions, which are less optimal.

    The reason this has arisen as a significant issue is that previous generations of cards did not pose the same level of risk when powered via the kind of adaptors supplied with risers.
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    WARNING:
    Just had a huge accident.
    Bought PCE164P0-NO3 ver 006. 1X to 16X riser in US. The small connector says PCE2PCE-NO4. Reluctant to give seller detail because it might be a one-off.
    It was SATA-molex type, but this was not a problem since it was not the SATA connector that was affected, but something that was under one of the whitish caps.
    card-sapphire 470 4gb OC
    once everything was connected and i turned the rig on, there was a loud bang and riser was on fire for 3 sec with flame reaching to card. Almost panicked.

    put back old riser (that i tried to replace because it was the narrow type with low power connector), card seems to work, whew.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @MarlynNeves
    Why you ask this question...the answer is already written many times in this thread.
    You are a noob, yes, but you can read.
    The detailed answer to you question is very complex.
    Simple anser is NO, don't use SATA, but under certain circumstances you can use them.
    Either way, finger-check the wires temp in the first few minutes of mining.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86


    As a practical matter, most people don't have a PSU with six seperate molex strings. Hence the common use of other solutions, which are less optimal.

    thats a big problem, lots of us just go with a single PSU, often the EVGA's since they are priced so well... we need one of those connections to power our SSD/HDD.... and sometimes 1 to power a motherboard (in the case of anniversary where if you are using multipe graphics cards it asks you to plug in the molex to the board at start up else it wont boot?...
  • nhandonhando Member Posts: 82

    Hello guys! Sorry I'm beginner ...
    The riser x1 to x16 must be powered by the Sata connector on all RX 480 models?
    I have a Red Devil, you can tell whether to use the SATA connector in this model? There is some risk in using it?

    I want buy this model on photo... its good?


    Look at the board in your picture, see where it says Ver 002? That's Version 2 board, I would recommend version 5C or Version 6 only. The lower version is Hit or miss, some of them are paired with really cheap SATA to Molex power cables which looks like the same cable in thickness of the rubber but the wiring inside may be cheaper. They will get hot and can melt. I have a lot of problematic version 3 that I am still slowly replacing. Version 2 was ok for me but there are a few I'm trying to replace and why take change if you're starting fresh, go with Version 5C or 6.

    P.S Hawkfish007 sells them and he's a Forum member. He ships relatively fast too, compare to super slow China.

  • AbcedarianAbcedarian Member Posts: 76
    edited October 2016
    I am trying to contact @hawkfish007

    If anyone has another source for powered risers ending with molex to the psu end could you please let me know.

    TIA
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    nhando said:

    Hello guys! Sorry I'm beginner ...
    The riser x1 to x16 must be powered by the Sata connector on all RX 480 models?
    I have a Red Devil, you can tell whether to use the SATA connector in this model? There is some risk in using it?

    I want buy this model on photo... its good?


    Look at the board in your picture, see where it says Ver 002? That's Version 2 board, I would recommend version 5C or Version 6 only. The lower version is Hit or miss, some of them are paired with really cheap SATA to Molex power cables which looks like the same cable in thickness of the rubber but the wiring inside may be cheaper. They will get hot and can melt. I have a lot of problematic version 3 that I am still slowly replacing. Version 2 was ok for me but there are a few I'm trying to replace and why take change if you're starting fresh, go with Version 5C or 6.

    so guage of wire is probably the main concern, not so much using the sata... i see a lot of big farmers using the sata with no problem... just make sure you have a good pcie 16x1 board and good wires and seems fine to me. mine dont get hot at all, not even really warm to the touch...

    I see some farmers using 4 connected to a single sata string... and I think they are pretty respectible farmers.

    I think people warn about the sata connection but they dont know what guage their molex to sata is...
  • hasherhasher Member Posts: 642 ✭✭✭
    Those "farms" you see are most probably not using 470/480 cards, hence why they can get away with the SATA to Molex adapters. The older cards don't draw as much power as these 4 series cards.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    hasher said:

    Those "farms" you see are most probably not using 470/480 cards, hence why they can get away with the SATA to Molex adapters. The older cards don't draw as much power as these 4 series cards.

    why do you reply to me? you just said you are not going to reply to me anymore... the Nitro takes almost no power from the PCIE slots.. all the power for the core comes straight from the PSU

    just stay away from me, i wont reply to you anymore and you dont reply to me anymore. we can solve this like adults, we can ignore each other
  • sandal7sandal7 Member Posts: 14
    blackwolf said:

    nhando said:

    Hello guys! Sorry I'm beginner ...
    The riser x1 to x16 must be powered by the Sata connector on all RX 480 models?
    I have a Red Devil, you can tell whether to use the SATA connector in this model? There is some risk in using it?

    I want buy this model on photo... its good?


    Look at the board in your picture, see where it says Ver 002? That's Version 2 board, I would recommend version 5C or Version 6 only. The lower version is Hit or miss, some of them are paired with really cheap SATA to Molex power cables which looks like the same cable in thickness of the rubber but the wiring inside may be cheaper. They will get hot and can melt. I have a lot of problematic version 3 that I am still slowly replacing. Version 2 was ok for me but there are a few I'm trying to replace and why take change if you're starting fresh, go with Version 5C or 6.

    so guage of wire is probably the main concern, not so much using the sata... i see a lot of big farmers using the sata with no problem... just make sure you have a good pcie 16x1 board and good wires and seems fine to me. mine dont get hot at all, not even really warm to the touch...

    I see some farmers using 4 connected to a single sata string... and I think they are pretty respectible farmers.

    I think people warn about the sata connection but they dont know what guage their molex to sata is...
    I think that not every version 2, 3 or 6 are equal it is probably how manufacturer is making or assembly them, some have more quality inside
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    sandal7 said:


    I think that not every version 2, 3 or 6 are equal it is probably how manufacturer is making or assembly them, some have more quality inside

    adtually I use ver.2 risers and they are fine, no problems or overheating what so ever... so, as you say, i dont think its dependent upon the ver of board used. saying you need ver.5 or 6 sounds just like a selling scam..

    what is the difference between these 2 risers? one has an added resistor or something? what is that good for? what is the benefit? costs about 25% more than the one without, but most people 95%+ buy the one without.

    Without:
    PCIE1


    With:
    PCIE2


  • sandal7sandal7 Member Posts: 14
    edited October 2016
    blackwolf said:

    sandal7 said:


    I think that not every version 2, 3 or 6 are equal it is probably how manufacturer is making or assembly them, some have more quality inside

    adtually I use ver.2 risers and they are fine, no problems or overheating what so ever... so, as you say, i dont think its dependent upon the ver of board used. saying you need ver.5 or 6 sounds just like a selling scam..

    what is the difference between these 2 risers? one has an added resistor or something? what is that good for? what is the benefit? costs about 25% more than the one without, but most people 95%+ buy the one without.

    Without:
    PCIE1


    With:
    PCIE2


    I use the first one but i have blue usb cable that seems thicker and it has yellow AWG 18 cable, it looks good, but i dont tested it with 480, i will use it in next days
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    sandal7 said:



    I use the same risers, it looks good, but i dont tested it with 480, i will use it in next days

    100% awesome and tested with 480s here :)

    but you do not know why the second one has the added resistor? no one seems to buy it as it cost more than the one without... for the one without.. the seller has sold almost 2000 pieces... the most bought riser here.. the most popular riser here... while the one with resistor only 25 sold (but maybe it is newer, i can not tell)
  • sandal7sandal7 Member Posts: 14
    blackwolf said:

    sandal7 said:



    I use the same risers, it looks good, but i dont tested it with 480, i will use it in next days

    100% awesome and tested with 480s here :)

    but you do not know why the second one has the added resistor? no one seems to buy it as it cost more than the one without... for the one without.. the seller has sold almost 2000 pieces... the most bought riser here.. the most popular riser here... while the one with resistor only 25 sold (but maybe it is newer, i can not tell)
    I dont know, it is diode symbol?
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    sandal7 said:


    I dont know, it is diode symbol?

    I will try to ask the seller today. and I will try to get that chinese translated so we know exactly what that image says.. I will report back.

  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    Repeating what I have said before.
    The issue is with the pins in the sata connector. There are 3 pins carrying 12V from the female side (from the PSU) to the male side. The official rating for these pins is 1.5A each. That means each pin is rated for 18 Watts. Times three means the sata connector is meant to carry only 54 Watts. When 75 Watts (or more) pass through these pins the temperature rises and melted connectors is the consequence.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    ethfan said:

    Repeating what I have said before.
    The issue is with the pins in the sata connector. There are 3 pins carrying 12V from the female side (from the PSU) to the male side. The official rating for these pins is 1.5A each. That means each pin is rated for 18 Watts. Times three means the sata connector is meant to carry only 54 Watts. When 75 Watts (or more) pass through these pins the temperature rises and melted connectors is the consequence.

    So its probably more than safe to run 470s and 480s with downclocked and undervolted cores on these since they probably wont even hit the 54 watts through PCIE? at least if one do one per string... like im not an expert, but I think it also depends on what 470/480 you are using? some will draw more power through PCIE than others? it all depends on the PCB layout right?
    Post edited by blackwolf on
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    sandal7 said:


    I dont know, it is diode symbol?

    yes you are right, it is a kind of diode... a stabilivolt; voltage-regulator tube (VR-tube)

    "Generic specification for gas-filled voltage Stabilizing tubes transistorized regulated DC power supply"

    it is for "anti-burn" so that you dont burn your wires...
    if people are worried about burning their wires.. that is the prescribed solution.

    so... i believe... ver 5 or 6 boards don't really matter ... that is what matters the most - the voltage regulator...

    like you said, it depends on the quality of the board and what is on it.. not really the version, that AND the guage of wire used in the molex to sata cables... ethfan says you want 16 guage over 18..
    Post edited by blackwolf on
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    FYI, the smaller the gauge number, the larger the wire. Thus 16AWG is thicker than 18AWG...
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    I took out my clamp-meter and measured the current going into my RX480 Nitro 4GB. It is 6.3A through the three 12V lines via the PCIe power connector and 4.1A through the PCIe slot. That is to say, ~75W and ~50W respectively to the graphics card. In this case I would be comfortable using a standard SATA to Molex adapter to power the riser.
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