The correct way of powering the risers for the 470/480

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  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Member Posts: 537 ✭✭✭
    Zorg33 said:

    You mean running 3x 2xx or 3xx series cards on one chain, right?
    Try running 3 470/480 on one molex chain and see what happens.

    It is not trial error, it's the laws of physics.
    3 * 70W => 210W on ONE 18AWG molex 12V wire. That is 17Amps on a 18AWG wire that can handle 10Amps max.
    For a few minutes it may work until it warms up enough to start melting the connector housing and burning the dust in the air onto the metal connector. I've seen this at least 50 times from my customers bringing in the burnt cables and PSUs for repair.

    With rx 480/470's I only run 2 per chain, so I did not need to use more yet but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.
    With my 390/290/380's I have run 3 per molex or sata chain for months with zero issues though.

    So they really effed up on the draw-down on the 4xx series, eh?

    I rather not use the PIC-E split route though in the future, as splitters can cause more of a burn issue than not.
    I've seen tons of failed and singed ones from my BTC ASIC days.

    I'd reccommend people use proper power supplies with plenty of molex/sata/pci-e conenctors stock vs splitting up and about. Just my 2 cents though. :-)


  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    Yesterday I found in my 470 rig a burned/melted sata to molex adaptor cable that was powering one of the risers. That chain was only powering that 1 gpu and the ssd.

    Maybe the cable itself or the connection was bad?
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    @Truthchanter that's already been discussed many times.
    SATA connector is OK up to about 3Amps. Your 470 pulled about 5.5Amps from it and it overheated.
    Never feed riser 12V from SATA connector!
    You can only use 5V from it as seen on my photo, because the cards pulls only 0.1A from 5V.
  • KoodyKoody Member Posts: 53
    edited September 2016
    This model did not work with RX 470 Sapphire nitro OC 8GB (works well with r9 280x).

    When i use it, after + - 1 min driver crash.



    I tested these other and both work



  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Zorg33 said:

    @Truthchanter that's already been discussed many times.
    SATA connector is OK up to about 3Amps. Your 470 pulled about 5.5Amps from it and it overheated.
    Never feed riser 12V from SATA connector!
    You can only use 5V from it as seen on my photo, because the cards pulls only 0.1A from 5V.

    Haha wow I guess your right, I went back to look at my 470 rigs and all of the yellow cords on the sata to molex to riser pieces were warm... Some were even hot and changing color!

    I'm shutting down my rigs but not really sure about an easy way to get them safely back up and mining

    Seemed like one rigs cords weren't as hot as the others and im not sure why. I haven't checked my 480 rig yet but may have to shut that down too, or at least temporarily remove the gpus that are using risers powered with sata

    I think they were okay back when I had them undervolted all the way to 800mv
  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    I asked on EVGA live chat if, for their PSUs, molex could work in the sata slots in the back of their PSUs and the guy said no.. so that seems out of the question... Unless someone has that working?

    Splicing seems a little complicated to me but it may be less expensive than getting a 2nd PSU for each rig.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Hehe i hope you are in time with the half burnt connectors :)
    I can make extra modular cables that have molex connectors. Send me a pm if you are in europe.

    @Koody yes, x16-x16 non powered risers are not for mining.
  • CalivetCalivet Member Posts: 194 ✭✭
    @Zorg33 This PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182325&cm_re=photon_1050-_-17-182-325-_-Product

    Standard 12v rail. Its just that it gives you more of what you need. Unlike EVGA which gives you some wires you cannot use. Comes with 5 Molex cables that have daisy chain sata on them as well. I just use the molex end. How much power do you think a 470 draws? Do you use power risers with a molex to molex connection? When I usually make a comment, I am speaking from experience. I am running this psu with 6 rx 470, with power risers, molex to molex connections, on a biostar tb85.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    @Calivet this psu got quiet bad reviews, but good if it works for you well. It's also very cheap, about half of the popular brands.
    I dont see the cables exactly on the pics but yeah, if it has at least 3 chains with molex then you can power 6 risers with them.
    470 draws 5.3A through riser and 4.5A from the pci-e connector in my current 7 gpu setup.
  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Zorg33 said:

    Hehe i hope you are in time with the half burnt connectors :)
    I can make extra modular cables that have molex connectors. Send me a pm if you are in europe.

    @Koody yes, x16-x16 non powered risers are not for mining.

    The EVGA rep said that the SATA slots on the back of the psu use different voltage than the molex slots on the back, but you think it would work? Another guy at the bottom of page 2 in this thread said an EVGA rep told him that the sata and molex could be switched on the back and still be fine.. so who's right?

    And I'm not located in Europe, thanks though
  • CalivetCalivet Member Posts: 194 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Will if you buy a gpu push it to its max for over a year, what happens to its life span? Heavy load, wear and tear, somethings has to give. PSU are no different. Also it is luck of the draw i guess. lol. I mine eth only or when eth down, XMR which draws 100 to 200 watts less per rig. My rx 470 Rig is running 850w from the wall. @ 164mh/s. Each GPU has their own molex connection from the PCIE RISER to the its own Molex connection from the psu, so one gpu per string. So far so good. I just get tired of EVGA not supplying enough molex cables. Do they not know about crypto mining? At least sell a two or three pack of molex cables for a decent price. No other power cables will work on their psu. Can you imagine the sale they will get? lol
  • josechudmjosechudm Member Posts: 63
    http://forums.evga.com/Using-PERF-Cables-in-the-SATA-port-o n-PSU-m2538608.aspx

    In that thread they said that

    I opened a ticket and they sent me yesterday 2 molex cable for free
  • wild_quininewild_quinine Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2016
    OK folks, I think I have the makings of a simple solution, for those of us with spare 6 pin GPU plugs, based on @Zorg33 diagram and posts.

    Firstly, here's one of the SATA to molex converters that come with USB risers:



    The SATA connection is not good for the draw that the riser is going to take for the Rx 4x0 series, and the problem is with the draw on the 12v wire - the YELLOW one.

    So with a little jimmying, we can remove the 12v wire from the SATA (not the molex) end of this adapter:



    This yellow wire can then be appropriately inserted into one of the 12v slots on the GPU adaptor:



    With this solution in place, the 12v cable is coming from your GPU connector, which is more than happy to supply what's needed. The 5v red line does not have much draw, and is fine to leave as part of the SATA cable arrangement.

    The 12v wire stays in your GPU adaptor from the PSU.

    The molex bit goes in the USB riser, just as it did before.

    The SATA bit goes against a SATA power connector from your PSU. (You can now daisy chain that just as with hard drives, I believe.)

    So what's the thinking folks? Does this work? Will it still ground OK? Do we not trust these adaptors that come with the USB risers at all? They look OK to me, tbh...

    For those who aren't experts: DON'T do this yet. Let's get this peer reviewed by people who know what they're talking about. But it strikes me this should be a simple hack in that many will already have what they need in the house.

    Thoughts?
  • CalivetCalivet Member Posts: 194 ✭✭
    only one way to find out? run for 24hrs and report back. DO AT OWN RISK! lol
  • cscheatcscheat Member Posts: 147 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    please report back!

    Anyone can confirm this will work?


  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    @cscheat yes, exactly what I did.
    And of course you can take the 12V from secondary PSU too.
  • adasebadaseb Member Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Thanks for the photo @Zorg33

    Basically what Zorg did was correct. I measured the power from my old 280x and it uses only 25Watts, so they were safe for the SATA plugs but not the 470/480.


    If you are good with electronics you can go to Aliexpress and order some connectors, cables, pins, crimp tool and make a plug to use your PSUs unused SATA connectors for Molex, just use the +12V and GDN and avoid the +5V pins.

    --------------------------------------------------------


    @wild_quinine how did you get that cable out? I tried to open up the SATA connector but it seems sealed. Looking at how thin that cable is, its crazy using those to power even a 280x drawing 25watts.


    -------------------------------------------------------


    For everybody saying people use cheap PSUs you are incorrect. Even the most expensive PSU out there won't have any more than 2 Molex rails because Molex is rarely used these days. You would have to custom make the connectors yourself from the unused SATA connectors like I said above. Even my 1600Watt PSU only has 2 rails for the Molex, (10 molex connectors in total).


  • mjaaaymjaaay Member Posts: 97
    I'm curious as to why so many people are using SATA cables. Do your PSU not come with Molex cables or what's up?
  • TruthchanterTruthchanter Member Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    I took apart one of my Sata to Molex cables but im having trouble sticking it in and keeping it in place in the 6pin pcie hole like this
    How did you get this in?


    Saw this on bitcointalk alternate mining forum: anyone use these?
    EDIT: just ordered some of these, will test them and report back

    mjaaay said:

    I'm curious as to why so many people are using SATA cables. Do your PSU not come with Molex cables or what's up?

    Yea not enough molex cables or molex plugs, what PSU are you using btw?
    Post edited by Truthchanter on
  • josechudmjosechudm Member Posts: 63
    edited September 2016
    guys i had this conversation with a rep from evga

    according to him, at least in my psu (Evga gq 1000), semi modular i can swap without problems the sata/perif cable/output, and they even gave 2 molex cables for free

    1) Question 9/20/2016 6:34:51 PM
    Hi guys i need to know if you can sell me 2 extra perif cable for my psu? i need several molex connectors and only got 1 perif cable, and ive checking your forums (http://forums.evga.com/Using-PERF-Cables-in-the-SATA-port-on-PSU-m2538608.aspx) and says to open a ticket

    Hope you can help me out, thanks


    Answer 9/20/2016 7:31:39 PM
    Hello,

    Thank you for contacting us today. We can definitely get you those cables. Can you please confirm that the shipping information on your account is correct. You can check this by going to Member > My Profile. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

    Regards,
    EVGA


    2)Question 9/21/2016 4:35:03 PM
    guys are you sure i can use the sata output of the psu for molex?

    Thanks


    Answer 9/22/2016 2:19:15 AM
    Hello,

    Yes, and vice versa works as well. Both connections work in the 5.0v range.

    regards,
    EVGA

    3) Question 9/22/2016 6:03:40 AM
    But molex uses 12v, 3.3v and 5v right? thats why im worried, greetings


    Answer 9/22/2016 8:17:23 AM

    Good Morning Jose,

    It won't be an issue, they will use the same rails as the SATA connectors, it won't damage your PSU.

    We'll be here 24/7 if you have other questions or concerns, thank you.

    Regards,
    EVGA

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/sd9z3kdgb7er76o/evga2.jpg

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/vxc8816n1ctx7fp/evga1.jpg

    You can check the screenshots there, What do you guys think?
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited September 2016

    Saw this on bitcointalk alternate mining forum: anyone use these?

    I have a lot of these. They are good.
    But I only feed the 12V pin of the molex connector from my custom 6 pin to molex pin adapters.
    Of course they need only 12V source like all the other ribbon risers.

    My experience is that all kind of risers work well if you know how to use them.
    The only bad option for RX 4xx is the floppy connector type riser.

  • wild_quininewild_quinine Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2016
    adaseb said:



    @wild_quinine how did you get that cable out? I tried to open up the SATA connector but it seems sealed. Looking at how thin that cable is, its crazy using those to power even a 280x drawing 25watts.

    It is sealed. I worked the seal just around the 12v wire with a jeweler's flathead, and then judiciously applied force. (I still wanted to use the intact SATA connector, so the main thing was not smashing it all right open.)

    You think I need a to use better wire than comes in this adaptor? I'm on the fence, but I've ordered a short length rated for 16.5A

    I took apart one of my Sata to Molex cables but im having trouble sticking it in and keeping it in place in the 6pin pcie hole like this... How did you get this in?

    Honestly, how did you get this out, how did you get that in. This is taking me back, guys. :blush:

    The short answer is I stripped about 2x the amount of wire needed for the plug, and then folded it on itself to create volume. It sits comfortable in the plug, but nothing a sharp tug wouldn't properly munch up. I'm considering taping them in, but I'd want to be careful what sort of tape to use. I'm looking into it, to see if there's anything that would be safe.

    @cscheat, @Calivet - I've been running this for about 10 hours now. It works, but it's not been running long enough for me to stop sweating over it.
  • CalivetCalivet Member Posts: 194 ✭✭
    nice. keep us informed.
  • Tbone5660Tbone5660 Member Posts: 75
    josechudm said:

    http://forums.evga.com/Using-PERF-Cables-in-the-SATA-port-o n-PSU-m2538608.aspx

    In that thread they said that

    I opened a ticket and they sent me yesterday 2 molex cable for free

    Is it safe to run (2) RX470/480 per string on the evga provided Molex plugs?
  • josechudmjosechudm Member Posts: 63
    Tbone5660 said:

    josechudm said:

    http://forums.evga.com/Using-PERF-Cables-in-the-SATA-port-o n-PSU-m2538608.aspx

    In that thread they said that

    I opened a ticket and they sent me yesterday 2 molex cable for free

    Is it safe to run (2) RX470/480 per string on the evga provided Molex plugs?
    i will run 1 card per string, but 2 card per string should be safe too?
  • Tbone5660Tbone5660 Member Posts: 75
    josechudm said:

    Tbone5660 said:

    josechudm said:

    http://forums.evga.com/Using-PERF-Cables-in-the-SATA-port-o n-PSU-m2538608.aspx

    In that thread they said that

    I opened a ticket and they sent me yesterday 2 molex cable for free

    Is it safe to run (2) RX470/480 per string on the evga provided Molex plugs?
    i will run 1 card per string, but 2 card per string should be safe too?
    After looking at the PERF 12v line I see now that it's a 20AWG wire so probably not safe to run more than (1) GPU per string.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    I think we headed to the wrong direction with stuffing stripped wires into connectors, boys...
    Always use crimped terminals.
    Tangled wires wont have enough touching surface and its gonna get burnt soon.

    If you dont have tools from crimping, its better to solder the wires together as shown in the first post.
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Molex cables are too short between two connectors on the same string.
    Went to microcenter and got molex splitters (did not plan to use as splitters, just as extenders). Also got molex to SATA adapters just in case.
    Both cheap ($2-$3) from Purex.
    Conclusion: Absolute crap-not crimped well and as you try connection, it all falls apart.
    Waste of time
    Don't buy these!

    Additional observation: one out of 5 risers (from China) did not work from the get go; previously they did not include one little card that goes into 1X slot in 1/out of three risers (previous order).
    Basically, you have to order 20% more than you need.
  • hasherhasher Member Posts: 642 ✭✭✭
    Tbone5660 said:


    Is it safe to run (2) RX470/480 per string on the evga provided Molex plugs?

    Yes, this is exactly how I run my 470s and 480s, and how i've been telling everyone else to run them. The only difference is i'm using high wattage Corsair AX and RM series PSUs, but still should be perfectly fine with EVGA
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