10000 Mh/s, if you could? right now?

RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
edited September 2016 in Mining
I have a question, if you could would you set up an operation of this size for 9 months? $129k more or less...

Playing with the idea and it seems that you could get your money back and then some... private msg me about your thinking.

Thanks for your opinion.
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Comments

  • wild_quininewild_quinine Member Posts: 11
    No, for lots of reasons, but principally because you're asking us about it.
  • YogiYogi Member Posts: 147 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭

    No, for lots of reasons, but principally because you're asking us about it.

    for the contrary, i think 36 views 1 negative answer is a good indication on its own... and you gave me no reasons.
  • oakey22oakey22 Member Posts: 50
    Rabasso, after seeing some of your other posts you are new to this and not too sure you know what you are doing. If you are asking this question you obviously have doubts. That's another reason
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Yogi said:

    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

    agree @Yogi , but it is doable, if I knew when PoS would happen, that would be ideal because I could measure the risk, I thing they are a year away or more but there is no indication of anything, that kind of deployment has to be huge (Because of the DAO event, and a little bug could do big damage once you scale up, now banks and big corps are starting to pay attention to this specific tech).

    I will be around after PoS comes around, there will be tons of opportunity — I think, I'm brewing some cool disruptive ideas (things like IPFS, and other things that we can't foresee right now, but I feel the volume will increase anyways)

    When PoS comes we will still need GPUs to mine the blocks, wouldn't we?
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    oakey22 said:

    Rabasso, after seeing some of your other posts you are new to this and not too sure you know what you are doing. If you are asking this question you obviously have doubts. That's another reason

    @oakey22 yes I'm new at this, but many people here are not and that is what I'm trying to tap, and just because I'm new at this doesn't mean I'm not business savvy. Sure I'm having doubts, is not a drop in the bucket, is quite a bit of cash, but the return on Capital can be done in months where I'm planing the setup, but still can go flop quite fast also, and selling hundreds or cards to stop the loses is not my idea of a good time... or fun. But i have also learned from day 1, nothing to risk nothing to gain. if i was here 6 months ago i would have done it without thinking, and I still thinking is quite feasible right now.
  • Marvell9Marvell9 Member Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    I would do it in a heartbeat if i had that kind of money laying around, even if ether goes POS i suspect the other chain will stay POW and as long as you are buying newer model and efficent cards you could at least break even mining other coins like dash etc.

    I woud probbaly build this farm with Gtx1070s though since they are pretty powerful in other alorithims as well basically 3 times the power of a 480 for the same power for x11 and cryptonight i heard.
  • adasebadaseb Member Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭
    Think about it this way....


    You just discovered this ETH mining, imagine how many other people such as yourself also keep discovering it everyday?

    Its never a good thing when something is just too popular.

  • newmznewmz AustraliaMember Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    When PoS comes we will still need GPUs to mine the blocks, wouldn't we?


    NO!

    The whole reason the Ethereum Foundation plans to change to POS is to stop the excessive usage of electricity caused by mining. POS means new blocks are created by people holding a stake of ETH, which you could compare to placing a large amount of money in an account an earning interest on it. The DASH network does a vaguely similar thing with "supernodes".

    If you believe in the future of ETH then If I were you I would just take all that money and buy ETH with it! The result is the same - you spend a lot and end up with ETH but in your case you have the ETH straight away. If you can afford enough of it maybe you could be staked when POS happens. I think you need something like 1500 ETH but I have read a few different numbers.

    The fact that you are asking this question is the reason why people are discouraging you. It demonstrates that you don't know the answers to some of the basic questions which you definitely need to know if you are seriously considering this. I've been mining for 4-5 months now and I still don't know nearly enough about it. I have been lucky with some educated guesses and some great advice from people here and elsewhere. There is NO WAY I would invest a large amount in mining now. I would, if I had a large amount to invest, do like I said above and buy as much ETH as I could. I do actually buy ETH when I can afford to.
  • Crazy123Crazy123 Member Posts: 5
    I think your better off investing in ETH either way mining or buying. I bought into it and am currently mining at 1.5Ghs. Its still better than trying to win the lottery
  • SashSash Member Posts: 56
    edited September 2016
    PoW provides security in the network by doing the work.

    PoS doesn't provide the same security. Anyone with large enough pockets controls the stake. Ie. big whales.


    This creates orphan/side chains left right and centre. I experienced this with a recent coin called PayCoin that was POS.

    Going from PoW to PoS would be the end of Ethereum.




    To OP, Do both. Invest in mining gear and buy ETH directly.
  • cavkiecavkie Member Posts: 11
    If i have 100k to play with I would do that. I wouldn't take a mortgage in bank to finance it.
  • newmznewmz AustraliaMember Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    Sash said:

    PoW provides security in the network by doing the work.

    PoS doesn't provide the same security. Anyone with large enough pockets controls the stake. Ie. big whales.


    This creates orphan/side chains left right and centre. I experienced this with a recent coin called PayCoin that was POS.

    Going from PoW to PoS would be the end of Ethereum.




    To OP, Do both. Invest in mining gear and buy ETH directly.

    That's an interesting point of view - but how big was paycoin? Don't you think that a network as big as Ethereum now is, will have enough stakeholders to distribute control enough? I'm not saying you're wrong, but isn't the size of the network a pretty big factor in all of this?

    I don't know enough about the technical details but I hope you are wrong because Vitalek Buterin at least seems dedicated to POS happening and everyone seems to assume he is the one who knows better than anyone else where this is all going.
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    newmz said:

    Sash said:

    PoW provides security in the network by doing the work.

    PoS doesn't provide the same security. Anyone with large enough pockets controls the stake. Ie. big whales.


    This creates orphan/side chains left right and centre. I experienced this with a recent coin called PayCoin that was POS.

    Going from PoW to PoS would be the end of Ethereum.




    To OP, Do both. Invest in mining gear and buy ETH directly.

    That's an interesting point of view - but how big was paycoin? Don't you think that a network as big as Ethereum now is, will have enough stakeholders to distribute control enough? I'm not saying you're wrong, but isn't the size of the network a pretty big factor in all of this?

    I don't know enough about the technical details but I hope you are wrong because Vitalek Buterin at least seems dedicated to POS happening and everyone seems to assume he is the one who knows better than anyone else where this is all going.
    I kind of agree with @newmz most miners are here to mine and make a coin in the process, there is something for them, when you have a stake you have to put monrey on the table, and that is a risk, so a few will support that route, but what gives the network the security is the decentralization of the database. no miners to database, then the big corps highjack the network and take control of it. this tech has super disruptive capabilities at all levels. big corps are starting to see that.
  • cvipercviper Member Posts: 132 ✭✭
    your biggest concern is the Ethereum ice age not PoS.Ice age would hit sooner than PoS.
  • ceddycakesceddycakes Member Posts: 70
    Just let this guy invest and lose his money. He doesn't want to do the research to know about PoS let alone the Ice Age.
  • bctopicsbctopics Member Posts: 333 ✭✭
    If i had the money would I? Yes.. Should you? No, If you have to ask these kind of questions on the forums you'll never be able to handle something to that scale.
  • DividesByZeroDividesByZero Member Posts: 58
    edited September 2016
    Rabasso said:

    I have a question, if you could would you set up an operation of this size for 9 months? $129k more or less...

    Playing with the idea and it seems that you could get your money back and then some... private msg me about your thinking.

    Thanks for your opinion.

    If you did this 5-6 months ago I would say yes. $125,000 dollars would not get you anywhere close to 10GH/s. There would be a lot of technical issues you would have to deal with.

    1. Power - You would have to upgrade your street power to give you more AMPs. If you have an industrial unit you might have an on premise transformer.

    Rough math - 1 Rig with 6 GPU, 2 PSU total 1500 Watts @ 240 volt (you will want 240 volt for 2% extra efficiency) is 6.25 AMPs + 8% loss at the wall. So, for ~150MH/s you need 6.75 AMPs. 3 Rigs per 20AMP 240Volt breaker. Scale that to 10 GH/s means you need 67 Rigs. 67 Rigs * 6.75 = 425.25 AMPS. To show you how this is a challenge my house has 100AMP from the street, my shop has 250AMP.

    1.1 Power Backup (totally optional)- I like to keep my rigs on UPS because I hate lightning strikes and brown outs taking my stuff down. I have better things to do than bring up 67 rigs because of strong wind or lightning. You would need 67 x 1500 Watt UPSs or centralize to a 100 kilowatt UPS.

    1.2 Power cabling - You will have to run

    2. Heat - Heat will be a huge issue unless you have a nice northern location where it is generally cold all the time. You would be producing 342920.23412 BTU/h. You would need a 28 ton AC unit to keep the temps stable.

    3. Space - Where will you put all these racks? I use wire rack shelfs with angle iron strapped across the front to hold the cards in place. 2 rigs per shelf, 5 shelves. You will need at a minimum 7 wire racks with 5 shelves

    4. Networking - You will need two 48 port switches. Not a biggie but make sure to include this in your costs.

    If I were you I would look for an industrial unit. If it has enough power great, if not get a diesel or nat gas generator and feed it into the main panel. Get a contract from a local oil/fuel company to fill it up for you. You would have to install a ton of sub panels and run conduit to all your racks. Setting up the hardware is the easy part.
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭

    Rabasso said:

    I have a question, if you could would you set up an operation of this size for 9 months? $129k more or less...

    Playing with the idea and it seems that you could get your money back and then some... private msg me about your thinking.

    Thanks for your opinion.

    If you did this 5-6 months ago I would say yes. $125,000 dollars would not get you anywhere close to 10GH/s. There would be a lot of technical issues you would have to deal with.

    1. Power - You would have to upgrade your street power to give you more AMPs. If you have an industrial unit you might have an on premise transformer.

    Rough math - 1 Rig with 6 GPU, 2 PSU total 1500 Watts @ 240 volt (you will want 240 volt for 2% extra efficiency) is 6.25 AMPs + 8% loss at the wall. So, for ~150MH/s you need 6.75 AMPs. 3 Rigs per 20AMP 240Volt breaker. Scale that to 10 GH/s means you need 67 Rigs. 67 Rigs * 6.75 = 425.25 AMPS. To show you how this is a challenge my house has 100AMP from the street, my shop has 250AMP.

    1.1 Power Backup (totally optional)- I like to keep my rigs on UPS because I hate lightning strikes and brown outs taking my stuff down. I have better things to do than bring up 67 rigs because of strong wind or lightning. You would need 67 x 1500 Watt UPSs or centralize to a 100 kilowatt UPS.

    1.2 Power cabling - You will have to run

    2. Heat - Heat will be a huge issue unless you have a nice northern location where it is generally cold all the time. You would be producing 342920.23412 BTU/h. You would need a 28 ton AC unit to keep the temps stable.

    3. Space - Where will you put all these racks? I use wire rack shelfs with angle iron strapped across the front to hold the cards in place. 2 rigs per shelf, 5 shelves. You will need at a minimum 7 wire racks with 5 shelves

    4. Networking - You will need two 48 port switches. Not a biggie but make sure to include this in your costs.

    If I were you I would look for an industrial unit. If it has enough power great, if not get a diesel or nat gas generator and feed it into the main panel. Get a contract from a local oil/fuel company to fill it up for you. You would have to install a ton of sub panels and run conduit to all your racks. Setting up the hardware is the easy part.
    Yes! agree. electricity supply is not a problem, and cooling over the winter neither, in the summer yes it will be a problem... so that 28 ton coolant is going to be a costly issue, unless i can find a freezer warehouse space! the power backup units will also be an additional cost that i didn't foresee... unless i don't care about the 2 days a year without power. almost the same amount of effort to do 70 rigs or 210 rigs.

    Thanks for you input! i really do appreciate you taking the time!
  • Brie844Brie844 Finland, Capital City of VantaaMember Posts: 63
    This much power of 24/7 ? :o - Save it probably in goldbars, oilfutures and bitcoins.
  • nightdeploynightdeploy Member Posts: 14
    You could probably let your rigs stay in Their own dedicated box and let them stay in a data center near you you will have to pay monthly i think. But yea its up to you if you want to actually do it we cant change your mind about it
  • ciprianptciprianpt Member Posts: 219 ✭✭
    Well if i have 100k i would most probably invest them in ETH directly , buying ETH when is low and sell it for a higher price and so on... trading stuff or just wait for the highest price.

    OR SPLIT

    50k invest in rigs
    50k buying ETH when is low

    Investing 100k in rigs is not like you will get rigs with all those money, you also need a hal or something were to host them, good/stable energy, air cooling bla bla.. all that thing so all of this can cost you around 10-15-20k only (unless you already have the place with all the conditions)
  • DividesByZeroDividesByZero Member Posts: 58
    Rabasso said:

    Rabasso said:

    I have a question, if you could would you set up an operation of this size for 9 months? $129k more or less...

    Playing with the idea and it seems that you could get your money back and then some... private msg me about your thinking.

    Thanks for your opinion.

    If you did this 5-6 months ago I would say yes. $125,000 dollars would not get you anywhere close to 10GH/s. There would be a lot of technical issues you would have to deal with.

    1. Power - You would have to upgrade your street power to give you more AMPs. If you have an industrial unit you might have an on premise transformer.

    Rough math - 1 Rig with 6 GPU, 2 PSU total 1500 Watts @ 240 volt (you will want 240 volt for 2% extra efficiency) is 6.25 AMPs + 8% loss at the wall. So, for ~150MH/s you need 6.75 AMPs. 3 Rigs per 20AMP 240Volt breaker. Scale that to 10 GH/s means you need 67 Rigs. 67 Rigs * 6.75 = 425.25 AMPS. To show you how this is a challenge my house has 100AMP from the street, my shop has 250AMP.

    1.1 Power Backup (totally optional)- I like to keep my rigs on UPS because I hate lightning strikes and brown outs taking my stuff down. I have better things to do than bring up 67 rigs because of strong wind or lightning. You would need 67 x 1500 Watt UPSs or centralize to a 100 kilowatt UPS.

    1.2 Power cabling - You will have to run

    2. Heat - Heat will be a huge issue unless you have a nice northern location where it is generally cold all the time. You would be producing 342920.23412 BTU/h. You would need a 28 ton AC unit to keep the temps stable.

    3. Space - Where will you put all these racks? I use wire rack shelfs with angle iron strapped across the front to hold the cards in place. 2 rigs per shelf, 5 shelves. You will need at a minimum 7 wire racks with 5 shelves

    4. Networking - You will need two 48 port switches. Not a biggie but make sure to include this in your costs.

    If I were you I would look for an industrial unit. If it has enough power great, if not get a diesel or nat gas generator and feed it into the main panel. Get a contract from a local oil/fuel company to fill it up for you. You would have to install a ton of sub panels and run conduit to all your racks. Setting up the hardware is the easy part.
    Yes! agree. electricity supply is not a problem, and cooling over the winter neither, in the summer yes it will be a problem... so that 28 ton coolant is going to be a costly issue, unless i can find a freezer warehouse space! the power backup units will also be an additional cost that i didn't foresee... unless i don't care about the 2 days a year without power. almost the same amount of effort to do 70 rigs or 210 rigs.

    Thanks for you input! i really do appreciate you taking the time!
    The good news about cooling is that we are approaching winter and we should be POS by the time it is warm again. I would consider just buying on the dips and selling on 5% raises. Invest in a nice server, internet connection, LB/WAF/DDoS solution and prepare for POS.
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    ciprianpt said:

    Well if i have 100k i would most probably invest them in ETH directly , buying ETH when is low and sell it for a higher price and so on... trading stuff or just wait for the highest price.

    OR SPLIT

    50k invest in rigs
    50k buying ETH when is low

    Investing 100k in rigs is not like you will get rigs with all those money, you also need a hal or something were to host them, good/stable energy, air cooling bla bla.. all that thing so all of this can cost you around 10-15-20k only (unless you already have the place with all the conditions)

    Have the place have the perfect electricity rate, all the conditions are good, but the time. I even have a friend that owns multiple data centers around the world (i guess i could leach to him, but not enough space for this size). but i think @DividesByZero is on the ball here, get ready for PoS with the right infrastructure, then BooM! all set for mega expansion.

    I don't think I want to speculate with the currency itself, too volatile, not enough volumes to really make a play that will give same return has running an operation like this for 5 months. but it is the right time to buy high volume of hardware bc of the global conditions in general.
  • Brie844Brie844 Finland, Capital City of VantaaMember Posts: 63
    ciprianpt said:

    Well if i have 100k i would most probably invest them in ETH directly , buying ETH when is low and sell it for a higher price and so on... trading stuff or just wait for the highest price.

    OR SPLIT

    50k invest in rigs
    50k buying ETH when is low

    Investing 100k in rigs is not like you will get rigs with all those money, you also need a hal or something were to host them, good/stable energy, air cooling bla bla.. all that thing so all of this can cost you around 10-15-20k only (unless you already have the place with all the conditions)

    Yea make money 24/7 :smiley:

  • Brie844Brie844 Finland, Capital City of VantaaMember Posts: 63
    Yogi said:

    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

    10 Gh/s is lot of ethereum network. You can build you own house, summerhouse and invest on property for rent purpose.
  • Marvell9Marvell9 Member Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Brie844 said:


    Yogi said:

    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

    10 Gh/s is lot of ethereum network. You can build you own house, summerhouse and invest on property for rent purpose.
    lol 125 builds a house in maybe 1-3 states in the entire USA

    as far as real estate investment 125k is small, and if youre building a summer house for 125k your already rich loool
  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    Marvell9 said:

    Brie844 said:


    Yogi said:

    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

    10 Gh/s is lot of ethereum network. You can build you own house, summerhouse and invest on property for rent purpose.
    lol 125 builds a house in maybe 1-3 states in the entire USA

    as far as real estate investment 125k is small, and if youre building a summer house for 125k your already rich loool
    in my city 125 doesn't buy you a shed! no my mistake it buys you a shed! yes the Real estate in the states is sooo depress, with that you can probably buy a house in Florida in a canal! the problem will be that in 10 years will be under the mean lvl of the sea! for sure will be easy to cool the equipment in those conditions!
  • Marvell9Marvell9 Member Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Rabasso said:

    Marvell9 said:

    Brie844 said:


    Yogi said:

    1 -2 GH workable ... 10+GH no. too risky imagine if PoS comes early or ETH bottoms out.. yes you can sell some of the hardware but 100k's worth of hardware is like having a full time job.

    10gh is going to take 1 - 2 months to setup and test as well remember.

    I don't say no completely but you have to fit a very specific set of circumstances for this to work I think.

    10 Gh/s is lot of ethereum network. You can build you own house, summerhouse and invest on property for rent purpose.
    lol 125 builds a house in maybe 1-3 states in the entire USA

    as far as real estate investment 125k is small, and if youre building a summer house for 125k your already rich loool
    in my city 125 doesn't buy you a shed! no my mistake it buys you a shed! yes the Real estate in the states is sooo depress, with that you can probably buy a house in Florida in a canal! the problem will be that in 10 years will be under the mean lvl of the sea! for sure will be easy to cool the equipment in those conditions!
    lol
  • malefactormalefactor Member Posts: 12
    edited September 2016
    right now the math looks good. but what you need to understand, that you will not understand until you've committed, is that this is not a predictable market. you are talking about a massive undertaking, and while a 9 month time horizon looks short for standard business - that's an eternity in crypto. Even a 2 month time horizon you cannot rely on. Look at how BTC miners are priced; it speaks volumes. They are incredibly efficient markets, charging as much as they can for something that will never earn its cost back, yet people are willing to pay it, thinking "at this rate, all I have to run is 6 months". Yes, but they are neglecting difficulty increases, or simply shifting of the winds of popularity to something new.

    Nobody saw the DAO hack coming. Nobody saw the sudden moves of BTC up or down. All that has to happen to annihilate your investment is the lunatic ultra-catholic and bitcoin core owner luke-jr to do something particularly crazy and drive the value of BTC way low. Does ETH go up to compensate? Yes, but usually not as much. Altcoins track but not perfectly, and trust me, it's always moving against you.

    at the scale you're talking, it's a full time job, and the one prediction you can usually have is that everything moves against you. Don't forget that if you're in the US, the IRS takes ~1/3 of any profits you make, IF you make profits. And they will come after you, because at that scale, you're a business and you are going to show up on their radar. Also, everyone's assumption will be that you are money laundering.

    Over time, hardware breaks. Actually, that's if you're lucky. It catches fire if you're not.

    It's an alluring idea but the details, when considered, removes the luster. I do it for the technical challenge and beer money. At the scale I do it, it's large enough that it shows me going further to what you're proposing is a lot of pain that would involve staff, strategic relationships with hardware vendors, and so on. And now your profit margin has collapsed from small to negative.

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