EthOS - Chargeback your purchase

2

Comments

  • kilo17kilo17 Member Posts: 31
    edited July 2016
    kotarius said:

    All ethOS stats panels had a notice during the previous version of ethOS (1.0.5). This notice was up for a week. All customers were gently encouranced/instructed to make sure they were complaint with the license agreement. At this point, enforcement of the license agreement should not be a surprise to anyone.

    I am not sure why @kilo17 has decided to make a public spectacle of his particular situation, and in the interest of preserving customer privacy, I will not comment on it directly.

    Not a spectacle, I am simply offering my experience for others to see before they decide to buy a copy.
    Post edited by kilo17 on
  • pawpeachpawpeach Member Posts: 2
    edited July 2016
    Attention all DUMBASSES!
    1. Shut up
    2. You're making money from mining. Would you give your money away? These guys have put years into acquiring programming knowledge and need to eat just like you! As far as Red Hat, the income of gpushack/ethos wouldn't fit on a gnats eyelash compared to Red Hat.
    3. Just send the damned email and your panel will be turned back on.
    4. Smile, it will make you feel better.
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    @pawpeach First post, eh? What does Red Hat have to do with anything? There's no reference to it in this thread. In fact, you don't hear much about Red Hat anywhere, these days.
  • kilo17kilo17 Member Posts: 31
    edited July 2016
    Now that I have cooled off a bit, I am not going to do anything. I am simply going to remove EthOS from all of my rigs and chalk up the $480 I paid for 12 copies of EthOS that are not usable anymore as a loss.

    You win Kot, you keep the $480.

    In regards to the above comment, I did email them and I can only have access to my paid for 12 copies if I pay an additional $600+.

    "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

  • pawpeachpawpeach Member Posts: 2
    edited July 2016
    You're right about the Red Hat comment, but my point was gpushack/ethos is a tiny company compared to those that give their stuff away but have other ways of making money.
    Yes it's my first post, but I just had to jump in on this one, because I am a very satisfied customer and have received great service from the guys that created ethos.

    And I have cooled off a bit myself.
  • cascadia_coincascadia_coin Member Posts: 67
    edited July 2016
    First time posting here but...

    I have no problem paying for ethOS and own several copies and will buy more in the future for an expanding mining operation.

    I do worry that ethOS could be falling behind generic Ubuntu/Libuntu custom installations.

    What I'd like to see in ethOS 1.0.7:
    1. Dual mining - there is no good reason why we shouldn't be able to use Claymore 's dual ETH+DCR/SIA miner.
    2. RX 460/470/480 support - Upgrading ethOS to 16.04 makes more sense than asking people to write AMD to support an obsolete OS. Is it hard work? Sure but that's also why those of us who are paying for ethOS pay for it. Find a way, make it work. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to use ethOS to mine with these very efficient cards.
    3. Rig naming ability - ie: custom names of a certain length (whatever Kotarius deems sensible).
    He's done a decent job with the ethOS and if he can come through with that then it can continue to lead the way but the world of ETH mining has changed and I'd hate to see ethOS stuck in the past.

    There's a rumor PiMP is coming back v2.0 with dual ETH+Decred/SIA mining among other improvements. PiMP was free with donation encouraged and included a very advanced web management (read and write) interface for rigs and ASICs. Those who are disenfranchised might want to just wait for that rather than issue chargebacks.

    As I own a professional mining operation I am sticking with ethOS though.
  • theneogeo1982theneogeo1982 Member Posts: 530 ✭✭✭
    Isn't ethOS based on freeware?
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    @cascadia_coin

    Thanks for your comments.

    We have clearly defined limitations of scope. The reason ethOS is successful is because we decide not to bite off more than we can chew.

    1. Dual mining - chasing shitcoins is going to get very old, very quickly (this is largely the reason PIMP died, the burnout associated with incremental shitcoin support). Even if we dedicate the necessary hours to making sure it all works, all miners will mine/dump them and crash their markets. The only difference will be the extra power cost associated with mining them. Large-scale miners have provisioned their rigs and power supplies according to the power costs associated with mining ethereum. Mining different algos concurrently will result in extra heat, power, etc, and will quickly eat up whatever small margin that results from dual mining.

    2. RX 400 Series support - this is in the works. AMD no longer says "we will never support 14.04", after all those emails, they now say "please subscribe to be informed when the 14.04 driver is released". That is a step in the right direction. Rebuilding ethOS on 16.04 will require a ground-up rework, which will take too much time, will drop support for older cards. Right now, RX 400 on ALL linux is gimped. There is no support for overclocking, power states, temperature monitoring, etc. This needs to be fixed before we can think about implementing it.

    As far as 14.04, it is not obsolete. It is supported until April 2019 (3 more years). Not sure why AMD decided to drop the ball on this distro. You can check Ubuntu release schedule here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Table_of_versions

    3. Rig naming ability - You can change the hostname, but it is not recommended. Instead, you can change the rack-location. This will change your worker names on the pool-side. Check out http://ethosdistro.com/pool.txt
    # loc [worker]: set an maximum 8-letter code for rack/location information on a single rig (each rig MUST have a different code, or it will not report to panel)
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    @G416G This is a very strange thing to say. gpuShack bundles are the most popular product, bar none, on gpuShack. It is certainly not garbage, everyone loves them.

    Can you find a post about ethOS where I go out of my way to promote it, that is not simply defense of my character or business?

    I think it can easily be explained: The people who post about ethOS in a positive light are satisfied customers who have no problem paying for a good product.

    Check out http://ethosdistro.com/ "All 2653 ethOS rigs currently serve a total of 241.4 gh (5.53% of the 4365 gh network hashrate) to the Ethereum network."

    With 5%+ of the market share, it should not be surprising that people talk about this OS.

    Edit: typo.
    Post edited by kotarius on
  • SmokyishSmokyish Member Posts: 203 ✭✭
    @kotarius You like to keep using the argument that "devs need to be paid", but just looking at your changelog, your devs have already been paid multiple times over, if not for a lifetime of work on EthOS with your current pricing.
    This is freelance dev work, not a monthly income job, so either your devs are way overpaid for their work or that is just a bullshit argument, as you yourself just said how successful your product has been.
    So please stop using that argument.

    Disclosure: No, i have not used your software, and am not planning to.
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    @Smokyish

    The success of ethOS is attributed to the amount that developers are paid. I recommend you think about it, and maybe you will come to the realization that the success of ethOS could be attributed to developer compensation. ethOS is an evolving project with a never-ending backlog of 100+ action items.

    I have not addressed this yet, but if people don't want to pay for ethOS development work, there is a simple solution. They can roll back to version 1.0.4 for all their rigs, and they will be able to see the stats panel. We are only restricting the view of a read-only panel for people who have not paid for the continuous development. Mining is a for-profit business. If they don't want to pay for ethOS licenses for their for-profit business, they have many choices:

    1. Use ethOS without monitoring.
    2. Roll Back to ethOS 1.0.4
    3. Use ethOS with their own monitoring solution.
    4. Use the other out-of-the-box mining solutions (I have counted 4 thus far).
    5. Roll their own linux.
    6. Use windows.

  • marsmars Member Posts: 26
    i purchased one license of EthOS, try to use it but seems to me a bit difficult on linux and since then i never use it but never did charge BACK
  • buuhh99buuhh99 Member Posts: 20
    kotarius,

    Personally would love to control my own monitoring solution. If I am paying for something, I want to make sure there are no back doors etc. Being able to lock it down in full would be preferred.
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    buuhh99 said:

    kotarius,

    Personally would love to control my own monitoring solution. If I am paying for something, I want to make sure there are no back doors etc. Being able to lock it down in full would be preferred.

    The ethosdistro.com panel is read-only. We have had requests to allow write access to rigs from it, as part of a feature set (like click to reboot), but I have opted against it. I don't want to make it a target for malicious agents.

    In any case, you can definitely change the webhook to some other monitoring solution.
  • zedzednovazedzednova Member Posts: 53
    G416G said:

    he was going out of his way to bundle and promote the software with junk hardware and things you would find in the garbage just to get a license sale.

    Not sure I get what you mean here. He was bundling the OS with hardware sufficient and reliable enough to get the job done. Why buy a Maybach to do the job when Hyundai will suffice?

    Unless your plan is to resell the mining rig to a gamer after you have decided to quit mining with it, you don't need huge amounts of CPU power or a ton of RAM. By spending the money where it really matters, the PSU and GPUs, rather than were it doesn't matter, you increase your odds of reaching ROI in a reasonable amount of time.

    That said, you could build the system so that it can be later sold to a gamer and use ethOS to run it until you sell it on.

    I bought a 4-GPU MOBO/ethOS combo, and I couldn't be happier. I have a single GPU running now, and it was easy to set up and is rock solid for me. This kind of stability and reliability is exactly what I would want If I was running a mining business.

    Cheers,

    - zed
  • zedzednovazedzednova Member Posts: 53
    mars said:

    i purchased one license of EthOS, try to use it but seems to me a bit difficult on linux and since then i never use it but never did charge BACK

    What do you mean? It was easy to set up and get running. If you are new to linux I can see where it might be a little bit of a challenge.

    That said, they have a decent set of instructions on their web site and they answer questions on the IRC channel.

    I spent more time tuning the config/performance of my GPU than I did messing with the OS.

    Cheers,

    - zed
  • cascadia_coincascadia_coin Member Posts: 67
    edited July 2016
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin

    Thanks for your comments.

    We have clearly defined limitations of scope. The reason ethOS is successful is because we decide not to bite off more than we can chew.

    1. Dual mining - chasing shitcoins is going to get very old, very quickly (this is largely the reason PIMP died, the burnout associated with incremental shitcoin support). Even if we dedicate the necessary hours to making sure it all works, all miners will mine/dump them and crash their markets. The only difference will be the extra power cost associated with mining them. Large-scale miners have provisioned their rigs and power supplies according to the power costs associated with mining ethereum. Mining different algos concurrently will result in extra heat, power, etc, and will quickly eat up whatever small margin that results from dual mining.

    Well aware of that. Still it should be an option. What you think may be a "shitcoin" might be the next ethereum (which was a "shitcoin" not long ago and in the eyes of many Bitcoin maximalists, still is.) You're a developer not a fortune teller right?

    FWIW: There are legitimate use cases for Sia and Decred which if elevates them above "shitcoins". They've both got potential to be very profitable mid-to-long term(Decred already is BTW).

    Can you at least make it so installing the dualminer does not conflict with ethOs?
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin
    2. RX 400 Series support - this is in the works. AMD no longer says "we will never support 14.04", after all those emails, they now say "please subscribe to be informed when the 14.04 driver is released". That is a step in the right direction.


    That's not the impression I got.

    I received this from AMD.

    This differs from what you said AMD said. It doesn't seem like they have *any* plans to add a 14.04 driver:


    [email protected] via amdcloud.onmicrosoft.com
    Jul 11 (2 days ago)

    to me
    Dear Customer,

    Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200698668]} has been reviewed and updated.

    Response and Service Request History:

    Thank you for your email.

    I would like you to inform that as of now the driver support for Polaris generation of cards is limited to Ubuntu 16.04.

    I request you to upgrade your Ubuntu 16.04 to get the drivers compatible for Polaris generation of cards.

    Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

    In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

    Best regards,

    AMD Global Customer Care
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin

    Rebuilding ethOS on 16.04 will require a ground-up rework,

    That's why we pay you. Developers at times have to start over again due to OS updates. Are you saying you're unwilling to do this if necessary?

    You should have no expectation this stuff should be "easy", but if you demand payment you should be willing to keep pace.

    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin which will take too much time,

    That's why we pay for your product. Money is given so that you have time to do it.
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin

    will drop support for older cards.

    You could offer two versions. One for rigs with older cards and ones for Polaris. Seems a simple solution.
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin

    Right now, RX 400 on ALL linux is gimped. There is no support for overclocking, power states, temperature monitoring, etc. This needs to be fixed before we can think about implementing it.

    And yet other people have gotten it to work on 16.04....with various workarounds.
    kotarius said:

    @cascadia_coin

    As far as 14.04, it is not obsolete. It is supported until April 2019 (3 more years).

    Not by AMD apparently. And that's all you need to worry about.

    Seriously, we're paying you for a reason, please be proactive and work harder to get this working. Don't leave it up to AMD or your customers to bug them about it.

    Developers sometimes have go back to square one when needed.
  • cascadia_coincascadia_coin Member Posts: 67
    edited July 2016

    Isn't ethOS based on freeware?

    Yes. Ubuntu is freeware. So is ethminer, genoil, et al. etc. That said, what kotarius has built amounts to a significant customization for our mining purposes. ethOS makes it simple to mine and most importantly manage a large scale farm. I'm happy to pay for that.
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    @cascadia_coin We will work very hard to get RX 480 support, not trying to argue with you about that. Please note, the response you pasted was AMD's canned reply as of last week. Right now they are saying to subscribe for driver notifications.

    PS. Can you find someone that can get 27mh on RX 480 on linux (any linux?) If so, please have them email [email protected]
  • buffybuffy Member Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    own monitor solution in few hours... but I see statistics OK. Just need less info, alerts, etc.


  • thesmokingmanthesmokingman Member Posts: 152 ✭✭
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    @buffy nice job. Are you using the ethOS API?
  • buffybuffy Member Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited July 2016
    @kotarius thx. api only for android app. website stats are directly from ethOS to my public webserver, where I'm running own scripts. I did not change any ethOS scripts, just made own.
  • VirosaVirosa Member Posts: 43
    mars said:

    i purchased one license of EthOS, try to use it but seems to me a bit difficult on linux and since then i never use it but never did charge BACK

    Nowadays the Knowledgebase is pretty comprehensive with step by step instructions. For quick starting, there's like 3 and you're mining. (Connect, open text file, put in your wallet address and done)

    But if you(and anyone else) want, come by IRC and I or someone else will assist you.
  • TomboiTomboi Member Posts: 1
    buffy said:

    own monitor solution in few hours... but I see statistics OK. Just need less info, alerts, etc.


    how did you do it? @buffy
  • newmznewmz AustraliaMember Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    I too was pretty pissed about the way they did this, but it was initially because to me it implied that they were somehow tracking me and how many licenses I had bought. Then I realized that they just did this to anyone who was using more than 1 rig! So if you have a farm with 20 rigs that has grown gradually you would have to find receipts for all 19 of the extras! That would truly suck. Yes that is very inconveneint, and it was pretty much saying that you are guilty until proven innocent. It was a pretty bad way of dealing with their want/need to force people to pay. Surely there could have been a better way that wouldn't have caused all the ill feelings we are seeing here, and this is just those of us who bother to post here.
    I think it's pretty mercenary to ask to pay a license for EVERY rig on something built on free software. It would be more fair to charge for one license and then a small fee for each additional license, and scaling the price downwards for people who run farms with many many rigs. But they are of course free to charge whatever they want.
    On the other hand, I really like Ethos and when I compare it to all the bullshit a friend of mine went through setting up multiple rigs on multiple versions of windows and multiple different mining software - when I just put Ethos on the ssd and it works reliably for days and weeks without any problem - it's a great product. Added to that, I have gotten some great help and advice on the IRC channel and the knowledge base, etc are very succinct and useful.
    So - no one likes to pay for something which is just a value added version of something free, and full price for every rig is pretty steep, but at least if we have to pay for it we are getting something decent for what we pay. Nothing is perfect right?
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    @newmz Thanks for your comments. We have some nice things planned for future versions.

    Most rigs cost $1500 per each, license cost is $29 with the promo code. It is very fair, considering how much time it saves. If ethOS helps people deploy faster and manage their rigs to have consistent uptime, it pays for itself quickly.

    Regarding the gradual growth situation you describe: In almost all cases, people with 20+ rigs have not been fully compliant with the license agreement. However, if they were, searching their email inbox "gpushack" would show all their order numbers very quickly.
    Post edited by kotarius on
  • workwork Member Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭✭
    *Keeps reading "licence agreement"...*
    *Still waiting for red-eyed goat to appear in person...*
    *Wonders if kotarius might actually be the one in violation of the licence agreement.*
  • buffybuffy Member Posts: 101 ✭✭
    @Tomboi it's magic :) No. It's simple. I'm new in linux, but now we have instalation package for each rig and we are working on statistics panel and functions. Also testing traffic and refresh speed. Looks good.

    I undestand @kotarius. Server for 2k customers has to do big traffic and it's not cheap...
  • kotariuskotarius Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
    2600 rigs updating every 2 minutes is 1.8 million database record updates per day.
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