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How is everyone going to vote with the hard fork?
I've been thinking a lot about this (perhaps I'm being irrational).
1 - I lost a lot of money (sold half, kept half of my DAO).
2 - Miners deserve to have the best possible outcome as they are the ones securing the chain and the only ones able to do anything about this.
3 - Only three entities can immediately benefit from the three different choices.
.) The hacker - gets all his Eth, dumps on the market, things go to shit.
.) The original buyer gets back their Eth, dump on the market, things go to shit.
.) The hardfork locks the funds to take 15% of Eth off the market. As a general rule bad contract writing should not be bailed out. I understand "bailing out" when the entire ecosystem needs to be saved. I don't understand rewarding both those like me who chose a risky investment or those who wrote the risky investment to begin with. It makes more sense to reward miners and Eth holders.
4 - Does anyone know if there will be two plans for the hardfork? One to lock the funds & one to return the funds? I feel like it's an option worth having. At this point since the miners are doing the work of retrieving rogue funds I feel like they should be distributed to miners since the DAO writers lost them. Doubt that will happen.
P.S. Before you hate - I was all about returning to the DAO hodlers of which I'm one until recently after spending enough time deliberating
1 - I lost a lot of money (sold half, kept half of my DAO).
2 - Miners deserve to have the best possible outcome as they are the ones securing the chain and the only ones able to do anything about this.
3 - Only three entities can immediately benefit from the three different choices.
.) The hacker - gets all his Eth, dumps on the market, things go to shit.
.) The original buyer gets back their Eth, dump on the market, things go to shit.
.) The hardfork locks the funds to take 15% of Eth off the market. As a general rule bad contract writing should not be bailed out. I understand "bailing out" when the entire ecosystem needs to be saved. I don't understand rewarding both those like me who chose a risky investment or those who wrote the risky investment to begin with. It makes more sense to reward miners and Eth holders.
4 - Does anyone know if there will be two plans for the hardfork? One to lock the funds & one to return the funds? I feel like it's an option worth having. At this point since the miners are doing the work of retrieving rogue funds I feel like they should be distributed to miners since the DAO writers lost them. Doubt that will happen.
P.S. Before you hate - I was all about returning to the DAO hodlers of which I'm one until recently after spending enough time deliberating
Comments
https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/comment/45450/#Comment_45450
So far there have been a couple of proposals:
https://github.com/ethcore/parity/pull/1483/commits/fd9d10a0957dd6548a62f3f8b0bb1a9a794c7187
https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/pull/2757
And as for that argument that if theDAO ETH's are returned, things will go to shit because of dumping, here's another view: afaik many, if not most, who invested into theDAO are long-term ethereum supporters, investors and holders, thus is likely that only a minority of those returned ETH's will be dumped. Both of these arguments are speculative and as such, you can't be sure of the outcome, if you have some strong evidence that shows that your argument is a certainty, i would love to see that.
If a rescue package works, and people get their eth back from the Dao but, they decide this kind of investment is way too risky and sell to btc or fiat,... the price could crash.
No one can see the future. But miners need to agree on a direction. That is the difficult bit. By the time you get conscious on a plan, the game has changed again and people question their decision.
However: If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
FORK PARADOX!
I am however willing to put a stake in the ground and say.....
"I am happy with what you choose dlehenky. I believe you are knowledgeable enough to make a good informed choices for miners.... Whatever the outcome of your choice, whatever happens, i will not attribute blame to, or at you. I will live with the consequence"
That said, we now have the beginning of a consensus. Anyone want to add or pledge an allegiance with dlehenky or any other long standing forum member? @Marvell9 ?
@dlehenky are you willing to pledge a similar allegiance with @o0ragman0o ?
Or are we gonna sit here still, like a rabbit in the car's headlights?
Soft fork is out. Hard fork is maybe but only if its can be shipped by the hacker's deadline AND only if it can be shown not to have side effects.
I agree with @dlehenky
Please let me know what to and how to go about doing it.
I will say this though regarding the assumption that DAO token holders will dump their ETH on the market if they get it back...
I think them dumping is very unlikely. A few will, sure. But most of those who invested in TheDAO (remember, there were only 20k of them) knew up front that there likely wouldn't be any returns on that investment for possibly years.
Those don't sound like panicky weak hands to me. I believe a large majority of those people will retain their ETH and it will either go back into cold storage and/or eventually be redirected into newer DAO's that come out over the coming months, years, etc.
FYI, I was a DAO token holder (50k) and I sold 40k the first day they were available for trading due to security concerns and sold the remaining 10k the first day of the exploit. Thus, I no longer hold any DAO tokens.
So, even though I no longer have any skin in the game and even took a small loss on my DAO tokens, I fully support recovering what I believe to be STOLEN funds to their rightful owners.
I also believe that outsiders (mainstream investors + media) will view this extremely favorably. It doesn't take much to scare that crowd away forever, and letting a thief get away with $50+ million in stolen funds, when we had the means to recover them the whole time, will likely scare those mainstream investors away forever.
And also, if a hacker makes off with 10% of eth, ethereum is dead. 100%. It cannot recover from that.
@indytim The biggest problem with not forking is that a hacker, who is holding 5% of ether supply and who has expressed malice against Ethereum and certain devs, is in an incredibly strong position to destroy the natural evolution of the entire platform. It can destroy any hope of POS and mean that all other future protocol developments have to deeply consider how they will be impacted by such a malicious centralized holding. That makes a complete farce of Ethereum's 'decentralization' principle and is the most important reason to fork regardless of what anyone thinks of theDAO or Slock.it.
The dev tools are still woeful for sure. Further development on Mix-ide has been scrapped in favor of Remix which has only just gone Alpha. The debugger is very broken so debugging contracts of any complexity (like the DAO) becomes (and has become) a nightmare. It's frustrating to say the least, but IMO not to be given up on by any means. The DAO hack has taught us a great many valuable things.
Solidity isn't so bad... for a language that suppose to look like Javascript which was supposed to look like Java which was supposed to look like C++.... I don't really know what their problem is with it. Perhaps it needs to be more transactional, but fairly, it's relying on the EVM for that. I'm not sure what you mean by 'rollback call'. The 'thow' keyword throws any changes made to state.
The problem with throw is that it can execute at any time, and has no awareness of complex inter-related statements.
1.) The 'property' was taken, every effort should be made to return the property. The concept of property is directly proportion to peoples freedom.
2.) The ‘property’ should be held, and thief prosecuted either via traditional law enforcement or via the community.
3.) Under no circumstance should the replacement of the property impact the property value of other members of the community. It should be returned, not refunded.
4.) There should be a mechanism to freeze any stolen property, this will have positive long term effect and only build confidence that anyone can expect some protection, fraud prevention, and remediation.
5.) I totally disagree that the onus of someone entering into a contract should have to actually read and vet out all the code in a contract…
6.) Personally I see this issue of the stolen DAO property an opportunity that will create additional commerce in the Ethereum economy.
This said, I'm too much of a noob to know how I should vote at this time based on my beliefs.