Price Dropping?

ksukhinksukhin Member Posts: 150 ✭✭
I've noticed that the price of Ethereum has been dropping quite a bit, it was ~14$ USD yesterday and now it's ~10$.
Is there anything i've missed or are people just dumping their Ether and calling it quits?
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Comments

  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @ksukhin
    Does not matter much for miners, unless you immediately convert, which I am not.
    I am converting $$ into bitcoins and ethereum by the way of mining.
    ETH is a good buy on exchanges at ~0.017-0.018 or so, but i might try to start nibbling again at 0.02
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Strong support at 0.025 If it breaks through you will get what you wish. Maybe even 0.015
  • blueboxbluebox Member Posts: 181 ✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Look at the chart over the past three months. Tell me where it's tanking.

    That said, I only have three rules I learned the hard way in the early lite/darkcoin days:

    1) You mention USD and not BTC, so you're worried about cashing out. If it's still profitable, like it was at $2/eth, then don't watch the chart wiggle — but discipline yourself to recover costs asap, if that matters to you, and hold or sell the rest (no cap gains until you do). That's your decision.

    2) Don't trade fiat for altcoins. Period. Sucker's game, worse than the stock market, and you've seen how bad that's become.

    3) Pay the taxman. Cap gains on assets, just like stocks. Hold 'em more than a year, same rule (long-term) applies. All altcoins are not currency no matter what anyone says; they're the same thing as gift cards. "Mining equipment" can be deducted, just don't try it on your gaming pc — that story won't fly.

    EDIT: I should mention I'm in my 50's; take my perspective for what it is.
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @ethfan
    typically, I am a terrible trader and I learned to know my limitations, but last time I bought at 0.082 (after correction from 0.018-you can still see that wiggle on a 1mo Polo chart) few minutes before it went on a long bull run to 0.036. he he. Would not mind to repeat the feat.
    My thesis is that 2016 in ethereum= 2013 in bitcoin.
    would NOT be surprised to see eth=0.1 BTC if BTC stays the same
    So many things look similar to 2013 btc run.

    Back to mining
  • Varun916Varun916 Member Posts: 24
    @bluebox - what are the tax rules for mining? I thought that in order to be taxable, the pool or blockchain itself would have to keep track of taxed transactions, which doesn't currently happen...
  • blueboxbluebox Member Posts: 181 ✭✭
    Oh-boy.... Please read this first — https://quora.com/What-are-the-tax-implications-of-earning-spending-BitCoins-in-the-U-S?share=1

    tl;dr: If you mine, and never use any coin to directly buy anything or convert coin into cash, there is no taxable event and therefore no capital gain.

    However if you buy something with bit/altcoin, or convert it to cash, you've just triggered a taxable event.

    Any wire transaction between an exchange and your bank is a permanent record. Also, if the transferred amount is above $2000, the exchange and/or your bank can or will file a SAR (suspicious activity report); enough of these might trigger the IRS to come-a-knocking.
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    @bluebox In the US, crypto-currencies have been ruled to be a commodity, just like copper, pork bellies, corn, etc. They don't become money/profit until you sell them for fiat.

    @Varun916 See, above. ETH is not considered money, so there's no way for a pool to value it in fiat to issue you a 1099 form (US, of course).
  • eleven7tineleven7tin Member Posts: 51
    This is the reason why bitcoin crashed back then, people bandwagon because theres profit and they see it crashing then they start screaming Jumpship. No one knows if it will grow no one knows if it will disappear.
  • Varun916Varun916 Member Posts: 24
    edited March 2016
    @bluebox , @dlehenky - thanks for the clarification! The quora page doesn't make it very clear if mined coin can count as capital gains - do you have any more info on this? Sounds like I'll need a tax accountant if I ever sell mined ethereum...had no idea the filing burden was so high.
  • blueboxbluebox Member Posts: 181 ✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @dlehenky Bit/altcoins are defined by the IRS as a capital asset, not a commodity; there is a distinct difference.

    Commodities are based on standardized units, and you wouldn't want to trade me your bitcoins one-to-one for my ETH (would you? :p ).

    Altcoins are not standardized like commodities, nor are they financial instruments like stocks, so the IRS deemed them capital assets just like a house, car — or gift card — for tax purposes.

    From the third paragraph:
    "If you own bitcoins that have appreciated in value, you cannot use them to purchase goods or services without realizing gain. Such a purchase is an accession to wealth. It puts you in the same position as if you had first sold the bitcoins for cash and then used the proceeds to purchase the goods or services directly."

    Weird thing is, the code handles trading cash/altcoin on exchanges like stocks, in that wash sale rules and short/long-term capital gains rules are in effect.
    dlehenky said:


    @Varun916 See, above. ETH is not considered money, so there's no way for a pool to value it in fiat to issue you a 1099 form (US, of course).

    "First, your bitcoin exchange or payment processor may report your transactions to the IRS. This would be done with a Form 1099, which you’ve probably encountered at one time or another in a different context. However, it does not appear that bitcoin transactions are currently subject to the 1099 reporting requirements (although that will probably change). Thus, unless they voluntarily file a 1099 against you, it is unlikely that the IRS will receive a report of your bitcoin transactions. Note that they would need your social security number to file a 1099 in your name."

    Which means you can bet your ass .gov will change it. >:)
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭

    This is the reason why bitcoin crashed back then, people bandwagon because theres profit and they see it crashing then they start screaming Jumpship. No one knows if it will grow no one knows if it will disappear.

    There was a time, when bitcoin "crashed" first time.
    From 30$ max to 3$ and stay near that during ~1 year.

    Now we have only 3x drop from max.

    Cryptocurrency idea is very young and very unusual. Just need time.

  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @bluebox @dlehenky
    Re form 1099. Crypto is definetly included. You WILL get 1099 in US if you satisfy BOTH criteria: >200 transactions and >$20000 cumulative value of these transactions, as per Coinbase.
    In bitcoinland: One guy was mining to his coinbase wallet, other guy was sending his own funds back and forth between an exchange like bitstamp and his coinbase wallet-both got 1099, on the FULL sum.
  • Rich2016Rich2016 Member Posts: 132
    i did some epic trading and got alot from it with the fluctuations of the price in the past 4 weeks)
  • blueboxbluebox Member Posts: 181 ✭✭
    @Biodom Ah, well good to know. I suspected as much. Anyone who treads below the $20K/200tx level (small miners like me) should handle it as if you would get audited. You might not believe what the IRS goes after these days (my cousin is a high-net-worth accountant, but has stories to tell...).
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    @bluebox Could have sworn I read that the FTC had defined crypto as a commodity. I hadn't looked into how IRS views it, but what you're saying totally make sense from an IRS perspective. Considering what you have to go through to open a fully functional exchange account, these days, it sure feels like a fiat brokerage. I've been treating my mining effort as a straight-up business from the start, so I can take the business write-offs. With all the equipments purchases, power, bandwidth, etc., there won't be much taxable left, at least not for a while.

  • blueboxbluebox Member Posts: 181 ✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @dlehenky Yup - we pay the IRS — 'cause that's who would audit or put ya in jail, so that's what I cared about. :D Don't know what the FTC said, but I don't file with them!

    edit: btw, yes, mining expensed can be deducted, but there's some weird thing about "holding coins for sale to others" vs trading/cashing out in that article as the basis for deducting. If you're going to do it, probably ought to check with an accountant. Or I could ask my cousin if she's up on the altcoin rules. ;)
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    Now testing 0.02 support. You in @Biodom? May well go lower...
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Member Posts: 537 ✭✭✭
    Don't bother with the markets. It's all BS anyways. Less stress for me. Will sell once it's much higher. B)
  • o0ragman0oo0ragman0o Member, Moderator Posts: 1,291 mod
    I'm just trying hoard as much as I can before the Slock.it DOA funding. This is a nice turn.
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @o0ragman0o All these projects sound so exciting and full of promise to truly start changing the world. However, at the end of the day, it's at least as much about marketing as it is about the product/service/technology. Hopefully they'll do a great job getting their message out. That's an area in which I feel Vitalik does a super job, especially considering how young he is!!
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @ethfan not yet, I typically don't buy the first bounce
    @dlehenky Vitalik is better than all "core" dev on btc combined as far as marketing. That's why Peter Thiel is so supportive of him. Right people are very important, maybe critical for a project like btc or eth. Compare Amazon, Google or FB with the rest of them.
    @happytreefriends had a bit of work, so missed all the "excitement" of 2gb cards this am
  • CryptuxCryptux Member Posts: 118 ✭✭
    ETH is Google in 2002
  • o0ragman0oo0ragman0o Member, Moderator Posts: 1,291 mod
    @dlehenky And the promotion hasn't really started yet except for a few public appearances. Once the DAO gets security approval, then they can really amp it up and while I've got Eth, the more hype the better (can't believe I'm thinking hype is a good thing.....must be getting greedy :/ .... 'coverage' ;))
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    @o0ragman0o What's the estimated timeframe for that?
  • ethfanethfan Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
    Look at the chart. Nice double bottom has taken shape.
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    @o0ragman0o @dlehenky
    not sure about Slock.it DAO, but maybe worth investing a couple thou ($$ that is)
    @Cryptux I and everyone else could've gotten it as Google 2000 (at eth IPO prices=$0.4/eth, but somehow did not invest, was too tight with my btc), so had to settle for buying during the bottoming phase, so my average so far is around 0.005
  • o0ragman0oo0ragman0o Member, Moderator Posts: 1,291 mod
    @dlehenky 'Soon' .... y'know, like Paycoin, gotta make sure it's all good before launch ;)

    They'll announce first on the Slockit Slack but I believe it's in the hands of security auditors for this week at least. I imagine once that passes, they promote heavily in the tech/fintech media for a few weeks and then it's 2 weeks + some days funding round.

    The funding is the actual launch of the DAO so your buying into the DAO directly. Starts at 100 tokens/Eth rising to 100 tokens/1.5 eth after 10 days and closes 4 days later. White paper here has details and full DAO code (might need to join the Slack through to get it)
  • adasebadaseb Member Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭
    When should the blocktime change to 12 seconds? Next hard fork?
  • dlehenkydlehenky Member Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭✭
    @adaseb Anyone's guess. When I saw it go down to 14 after Homestead, I thought it was going all the way down to 12, but it didn't. So ...
  • BiodomBiodom Member Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    @o0ragman0o
    white paper link 'not found'-they probably removed it.
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