just a quick thought

PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
I really think that you guys underestimate the meaning of mining as an awesome marketing instrument of bitcoin-like technology.
A lot of people started using bitcoin because they just had it out of mining (me included).
And not because they needed it badly to buy weed on SR.
My GPU was mining litecoin 24/7 when I got into this more then a year ago.
And I STILL COULD DO MY DAILY photoshop/html job on my pc while gpu mining.
If the mining will be CPU-only some random dude will not be able to mine and work on a pc simultaneously.


  • EicosapentaenoicEicosapentaenoic Member Posts: 14
    It's a tradeoff. What makes your story possible also makes ASICs possible and with that centralization of mining pools by companies with monopolies who possess hardware orders of magnitude better than any other method. The philosophy of Ethereum seems to me to be one of imperative security and decentralization over all else.

    Also botnets.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    I think that the absolutely BRILLIANT idea of having a full blockchain on a miner minimizes possibility of ASIC appearance pretty much even not considering algo.
    For now even on GPU-friendly scrypt networks the botnets percentage is above 10% of all hashrate.
    If mining will not be GPU-friendly we will just give ethereum network not to asics but to botnets.

  • EicosapentaenoicEicosapentaenoic Member Posts: 14
    What you're saying makes a bit of sense to me but I don't even know why to be honest... Didn't you say you could mine without even noticing it in the background? Doesn't that mean you wouldn't notice a trojan? If mining uses lots of memory it would be obvious to the user something was wrong. Wouldn't this prevent the bot from being very effective and force it to mine very little at a time?

    And couldn't an ASIC just have an HD and keep the blockchain locally and then not have any problem? How would that apply?

    Also, I'm not sure if it's been agreed that the full blockchain must be stored locally, but correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps there would be incentives to do so, but not a requirement. If it were required and the blockchain got to be a couple Tb, mining would again be very specialized unless storage becomes much cheaper. This could of course happen and very likely will, but if it doesn't then it's a big problem.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    > Didn't you say you could mine without even noticing it in the background? Doesn't that mean you wouldn't notice a trojan?

    Have you ever mined on GPU ?
    Sure you will notice it because of the fan noise and GPU load percentage.
    Anyway I think you did not get the main thought of my initial post so further conversation is useless.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    Most of the time GPU is a free calculating resource.
    While CPU and memory is ALWAYS needed weather you are gaming or working on a PC.
    You CAN NOT do CPU-based mining 24/7 on you home PC.
    But you can do 24/7 GPU-friendly mining on your home PC like I do.
    This is only one of the reasons why GPU-friendly mining will will always be more decentralized - AVERAGE DUDES that what network needs.
  • JasperJasper Eindhoven, the NetherlandsMember Posts: 514 ✭✭✭
    Dont pander to miners too much. They're a side show.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    > They're a side show.

  • JasperJasper Eindhoven, the NetherlandsMember Posts: 514 ✭✭✭
    PoS can work without mining at all.

    Currently mining looks useful for extra security and neccesary for inflation, but you could easily get obsoleted

    Btw 'magic wallets' are a suggestion for other ways of inflation https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/comment/2765/#Comment_2765 , not very solidly thought out idea, when people make more contracts maybe some of them can be considered for it.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    > PoS can work without mining at all.

    I wonder to what of my thoughts this counter-argument is ?
    I suppose Satoshi was smart enough to consider POS as an option.
    I also think that mining had a great role in popularity of bitcoin.
    Not only because you could try btc without actually buying it but also because the initial understanding of bitcoin value for people came through combining electricity and hardware power costs when compared it to digital gold(and the fact that this approach is mostly wrong is not necessary important on this stage).
    It is hard for an average person to grasp that something absolutely virtual can have a value. And the mining could be a bridge to it through something "real".
  • EicosapentaenoicEicosapentaenoic Member Posts: 14
    First off, BTC is the gateway crypto, no sense following the pattern exactly just because it worked 4 years ago. The cats out of the bag. Now people can say "Ethereum, that's like bitcoin right?" and they already have a reference point, it's gonna be mainstream you better believe it.

    A housewife can mine ether with a computer from 2003 by downloading an app but hasn't been able to mine BTC for years now. And when it was possible for her to mine BTC she had to setup mining software using the command prompt. Honestly... what's the problem? Isn't that exactly what you want? CPU power is quite linear compared to cost, meaning it's the most level playing ground. You act like everyone has a gfx card in the first place. Most people only have laptops now and most of those laptops don't even have a gfx card because they're netbooks. Netbooks can mine ether and will probably still mine ether for a while, like years. Netbooks will benefit just as much as gaming PCs from CPU advancements. Maybe you won't make 5000% profit but there won't be some new technology undercutting you either, just PCs that are actually "good" but that are still within the same order of magnitude. There's no secret left, Ethereum might even go semi-mainstream before it launches for all we know. People don't feel comfortable investing in something with no backing (even though that's all they do), but they might see the use in using contracts and the applications built on top of them with a turing complete system for various purposes and mine a bit so they can use the network just to get the minimum cost of using an app. It's a whole new ballgame.

    In fact, people getting into Bitcoin in the next year will say to themselves, "hey I can just mine ether right now and not Bitcoin, Bitcoin I have to buy." Ether's price is probably going to go up faster than BTC at least for a little while, badabing-badaboom it eclipses BTC as the herd mentality does what it does. Bitcoin already opened the door, we don't need to weaken Ethereum's decentralized integrity to appease Bitcoin veterans who feel buyers remorse. Every couple months Bitcoin has to deal with mining pools reaching 51%, and those mining pools are all running hardware that takes months to get delivery on and by the time you get them they're already obsolete. You can't recreate the past just by recreating the parameters that allowed that past to arise, things have changed.
  • PoletPhilterPoletPhilter Member Posts: 7
    > Most people only have laptops now and most of those laptops don't even have a gfx card because they're netbooks. Netbooks can mine ether and will probably still mine ether for a while

    You won't be able to mine on a laptop 'couse network will be dominated by botnets and datacenters. Even if you would you won't mine on a laptop most of the time 'couse you will need it for work. Memory and CPU are always needed while GPU is a free calculating resource most of the time.
    This is ridiculous. You don't hear me and don't even try.
    Did you even read my initial post before posting here ?

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