New revision to USB powered riser

deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
Found these for sale on ebay. The seller specifically points out that it has 3 capacitors instead of 2 and that it has a voltage regulator on board. I see lots of other versions with 3 capacitors but none that have the little voltage regulator. Does this actually make a difference?


Comments

  • RabassoRabasso Member Posts: 151 ✭✭
    they are good, i have like 50 of those without the Voltage regulator and they work great, and the board instead of being black is blue!
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016

    Found these for sale on ebay. The seller specifically points out that it has 3 capacitors instead of 2 and that it has a voltage regulator on board. I see lots of other versions with 3 capacitors but none that have the little voltage regulator. Does this actually make a difference?


    This is simple diode, not any kind of voltage regulator.

    Voltage regulator - that black square-form element with 3 pins. It just converts 5V to 3.3 V.
    It present on all "USB" risers.
  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    Any idea what the benefit of the diode is if anything?

    Apparently the seller doesn't even know what it's for since they labeled it incorrectly in their picture.
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭

    Any idea what the benefit of the diode is if anything?

    Apparently the seller doesn't even know what it's for since they labeled it incorrectly in their picture.

    Maybe for polarity protection,
  • kristofferjonkristofferjon Sagittarius AMember Posts: 77 ✭✭
    What is the version of this riser?
  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    PCB has part number PCE64P-N03 on it with version 006. I've seen the same version of the board without the diode from other sellers.
  • breathesumetherbreathesumether Member Posts: 20
    I bought a 4-pack off eBay but one set was a dud. I didn't notice a difference, may have to use it longer.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    Jukebox said:

    Any idea what the benefit of the diode is if anything?

    Apparently the seller doesn't even know what it's for since they labeled it incorrectly in their picture.

    Maybe for polarity protection,
    its labelled as a voltage regulator in chinese, as I pointed out in the other pcie thread yesterday... I think i actually brought these to most peoples attention.. before someone here found them on ebay LOL so much for getting credit for my posts LOL
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016

    Found these for sale on ebay. The seller specifically points out that it has 3 capacitors instead of 2 and that it has a voltage regulator on board. I see lots of other versions with 3 capacitors but none that have the little voltage regulator. Does this actually make a difference?

    I already posted this yesterday in the "correct way" thread
    http://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/9495/the-correct-way-of-powering-the-risers-for-the-470-480/p5

    quoting my post from yesterday:
    ""
    a stabilivolt; voltage-regulator tube (VR-tube)

    "Generic specification for gas-filled voltage Stabilizing tubes transistorized regulated DC power supply"

    it is for "anti-burn" so that you dont burn your wires...
    ""


    BTW, would be nice to get some credit for pointing this out first .... LOL ...
    i have known about these for MONTHs... funny how it was found on ebay right after I posted about it... it is not like they are that New..




  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    I didn't see your post in that thread or I wouldn't have even posted this. Also, I posted this to ask if they were any better than the ones without the extra component, not to try to get credit for some new discovery. I've been a member of this board for two days, you really think I've had time to read everything? Anyway, thanks for the extra info on what benefit it might have.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016

    I didn't see your post in that thread or I wouldn't have even posted this. Also, I posted this to ask if they were any better than the ones without the extra component, not to try to get credit for some new discovery. I've been a member of this board for two days, you really think I've had time to read everything? Anyway, thanks for the extra info on what benefit it might have.

    alright, i can ask the chinese sellers directly for more info if you want. like how exactly it regulates voltage... if what jukebox said is correct etc.

    until then this might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage-regulator_tube

    Note: Electrically, these devices resemble Zener diodes, with the following major differences ... so just because it looks like a zener diode doesn't mean it is? maybe not best to jump to conclusions and make assumptions? maybe the sellers know what they are selling? LOL

    From the wiki:

    "A voltage-regulator tube (VR tube) is an electronic component used as a shunt regulator to hold a voltage constant at a pre-determined level.

    Physically, these devices resemble vacuum tubes, but there are two main differences:

    Their glass envelopes are filled with a gas mixture, and
    They have a cold cathode; the cathode is not heated with a filament to emit electrons.

    Electrically, these devices resemble Zener diodes, with the following major differences:

    They rely on gas ionization, rather than Zener breakdown
    The unregulated supply voltage must be 15–20% above the nominal output voltage to ensure that the discharge starts
    The output can be higher than nominal if the current through the tube is too low.

    When sufficient voltage is applied across the electrodes, the gas ionizes, forming a glow discharge around the cathode electrode. The VR tube then acts as a negative resistance device; as the current through the device increases, the amount of ionization also increases, reducing the resistance of the device to further current flow. In this way, the device conducts sufficient current to hold the voltage across its terminals to the desired value.

    Because the device would conduct a nearly unlimited amount of current, there must be some external means of limiting the current. Usually, this is provided by an external resistor upstream from the VR tube. The VR tube then conducts any portion of the current that does not flow into the downstream load, maintaining an approximately constant voltage across the VR tube's electrodes. The VR tube's regulation voltage was only guaranteed when conducting an amount of current within the allowable range. In particular, if the current through the tube is too low to maintain ionization, the output voltage can rise above the nominal output—as far as the input supply voltage. If the current through the tube is too high, it can enter an arc discharge mode where the voltage will be significantly lower than nominal and the tube may be damaged.

    Some voltage-regulator tubes contained small amounts of radionuclides to produce a more reliable ionization.[1]

    The Corona VR tube is a high-voltage version that's hydrogen-filled at close to atmospheric pressure, for voltages ranging from 400 V to 30 kV at tens of microamperes. It has a coaxial form; the outer cylindrical electrode is the cathode and the inner one is the anode. The voltage stability depends on the gas pressure."
  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    Cool, this also makes me wonder what all the other unused pads on the board are for. Maybe they plan to release one with 5 caps instead of 3? What about the unused provisions made for components on each side of the vr-tube? What benefit would those extra components provide or would it just increase cost for no noticeable benefit?

    Ultimately I'm just trying to see if I should be paying the extra cost for this revision or looking for an even more complicated revision. I don't have the electrical engineering background to know. The ones I already bought with the vr-tube are all working great though. I have two 470s on each molex string with a wire temp of 93F in a 84F room. I don't have any of the risers without the vr-tube to test if the wires would be hotter without the additional component.

  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016

    Cool, this also makes me wonder what all the other unused pads on the board are for. Maybe they plan to release one with 5 caps instead of 3? What about the unused provisions made for components on each side of the vr-tube? What benefit would those extra components provide or would it just increase cost for no noticeable benefit?

    Ultimately I'm just trying to see if I should be paying the extra cost for this revision or looking for an even more complicated revision. I don't have the electrical engineering background to know. The ones I already bought with the vr-tube are all working great though. I have two 470s on each molex string with a wire temp of 93F in a 84F room. I don't have any of the risers without the vr-tube to test if the wires would be hotter without the additional component.

    im not sure, im not an electrician or expert, but there are more components on the boards that use the 6 pin connectors... but i cant find any of those here so i cant find out details about that.. you can see someone posted photos of those in that threat I posted above, go to page 6.

    honestly Id like to get my hands on some of those 6 pin powered risers so I can plug them directly into my 8pin to 8pin + 6pin cables that the GPUs run off of... but again like I said... can't find them here.. and not about to try to imort them here when they are more than likely made here.. I will continue to try to find them though.

    How much does that seller charge for them? I'm planning on picking up a few maybe 6-10 pieces (since i get free shipping on orders of 10 or more.;. even though shipping is just like 1-2$ LOL) with the regulators on them to try them out in the next few days.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    check out these 1600W ETH Mining PSUs

    I have not used them but curious about them, maybe the best way to power the risers??



  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    I got 10 for $6.20 each shipped from the US so I'm set for one more build already if I put one card directly on each motherboard. The seller only has 4 packs now which are a rip off at $8.75 each but I assume they will relist the 10 pack since they sold out quickly.

    I try to buy everything either local (microcenter with tax license) or from US sellers since the downtime waiting for parts from China could easily have paid $60 in mining during the extra week waiting for the shipment.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016

    I got 10 for $6.20 each shipped from the US so I'm set for one more build already if I put one card directly on each motherboard. The seller only has 4 packs now which are a rip off at $8.75 each but I assume they will relist the 10 pack since they sold out quickly.

    I try to buy everything either local (microcenter with tax license) or from US sellers since the downtime waiting for parts from China could easily have paid $60 in mining during the extra week waiting for the shipment.

    well thats one nice thing about living in china... all those things are cheap and you dont have to wait long for delivery (1-2 days). the voltage regulated risers just cost me about 3.8 USD each :) (with free shipping if i get 10)... unregulated ones just $3... LOL :smiley:

    can get an entire rig frame out of steel for like 12$ .. and i see places selling those for like 50-100 USD internationally... ridiculous

    that PSU 1600W ETH is under 100$.. i just wonder if it has coil whine...
  • deucedeuce37deucedeuce37 Member Posts: 35
    Might as well setup your own ebay store and negotiate at 100+ pieces then. :smiley:
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86

    Might as well setup your own ebay store and negotiate at 100+ pieces then. :smiley:

    considering it :smile:
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    blackwolf said:


    its labelled as a voltage regulator in chinese, as I pointed out in the other pcie thread yesterday... I think i actually brought these to most peoples attention.. before someone here found them on ebay LOL so much for getting credit for my posts LOL

    SP1084 -5A Low Dropout Linear Regulator. The SP1084 is available in 1.5V, 1.8V, 2.5V, 2.85V, 3.3V and 5.0V versions. The fixed versions integrate the adjustment resistors.

    There's sp1084cm-3.3 on my risers - 3.3 V fixed version. No need to have any additional stabilivolts or something else to let it work.

    Zener diode (if it's really it) only says that sp1084cm-3.3 replaced with something else w/o integrated adjustment resistors and need external source of stable voltage.

    So there is no any advantages between risers with or without this Zener diode onboard.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    Jukebox said:

    blackwolf said:


    its labelled as a voltage regulator in chinese, as I pointed out in the other pcie thread yesterday... I think i actually brought these to most peoples attention.. before someone here found them on ebay LOL so much for getting credit for my posts LOL

    SP1084 -5A Low Dropout Linear Regulator. The SP1084 is available in 1.5V, 1.8V, 2.5V, 2.85V, 3.3V and 5.0V versions. The fixed versions integrate the adjustment resistors.

    There's sp1084cm-3.3 on my risers - 3.3 V fixed version. No need to have any additional stabilivolts or something else to let it work.

    Zener diode (if it's really it) only says that sp1084cm-3.3 replaced with something else w/o integrated adjustment resistors and need external source of stable voltage.

    So there is no any advantages between risers with or without this Zener diode onboard.
    ok fair enough, you probably know better,... but i thought that wiki said its not a zener diode?
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    blackwolf said:



    ok fair enough, you probably know better,... but i thought that wiki said its not a zener diode?

    It's difficult to detect what is it only by photo.

    That can be both Zener or just standart diode.
    1-st case it used in DC-DC coversion as signal source of stable voltage
    2-nd case it can be used to protect card from wrong voltage polarity.
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    Jukebox said:

    blackwolf said:



    ok fair enough, you probably know better,... but i thought that wiki said its not a zener diode?

    It's difficult to detect what is it only by photo.

    That can be both Zener or just standart diode.
    1-st case it used in DC-DC coversion as signal source of stable voltage
    2-nd case it can be used to protect card from wrong voltage polarity.
    ok, whats a VR tube then? why do they say its a VR tube?
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    blackwolf said:



    ok, whats a VR tube then? why do they say its a VR tube?

    VR-tube means Zener diode and nothing more.

    It used for voltage regulation, but it not a voltage regulator itself. Voltage regulator is SP1084 IC. Zener diode is control element for it.

  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    Jukebox said:

    blackwolf said:



    It used for voltage regulation, but it not a voltage regulator itself. Voltage regulator is SP1084 IC. Zener diode is control element for it.

    alright, so you suggest not wasting the extra 1$ on the version with the diode... just go for the version without is just as safe?
  • JukeboxJukebox Member Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    blackwolf said:



    alright, so you suggest not wasting the extra 1$ on the version with the diode... just go for the version without is just as safe?

    No sense at all. This Zener is present only because riser uses SP1084 version that not have adjustment resistors integrated in.

    The reason is very simple.
    Some manufacturers have "fixed voltage" version of SP1084 on stock, some - not.
    Last ones need extra electronic parts (Zener diode in our case) to let riser work correctly. There is no any advantage at all - they just do their risers from electronic parts that they already have.

    Quality and functionality of these risers is equal.
  • Zorg33Zorg33 Member Posts: 220 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    blackwolf said:

    Cool, this also makes me wonder what all the other unused pads on the board are for. Maybe they plan to release one with 5 caps instead of 3? What about the unused provisions made for components on each side of the vr-tube? What benefit would those extra components provide or would it just increase cost for no noticeable benefit?

    Ultimately I'm just trying to see if I should be paying the extra cost for this revision or looking for an even more complicated revision. I don't have the electrical engineering background to know. The ones I already bought with the vr-tube are all working great though. I have two 470s on each molex string with a wire temp of 93F in a 84F room. I don't have any of the risers without the vr-tube to test if the wires would be hotter without the additional component.

    im not sure, im not an electrician or expert, but there are more components on the boards that use the 6 pin connectors... but i cant find any of those here so i cant find out details about that.. you can see someone posted photos of those in that threat I posted above, go to page 6.

    honestly Id like to get my hands on some of those 6 pin powered risers so I can plug them directly into my 8pin to 8pin + 6pin cables that the GPUs run off of... but again like I said... can't find them here.. and not about to try to imort them here when they are more than likely made here.. I will continue to try to find them though.
    I already answered that in the 'other' riser thread.
    https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/comment/63668/#Comment_63668

    BTW you can find them on ebay and ali*
  • blackwolfblackwolf EarthMember Posts: 86
    edited October 2016
    Zorg33 said:

    blackwolf said:

    Cool, this also makes me wonder what all the other unused pads on the board are for. Maybe they plan to release one with 5 caps instead of 3? What about the unused provisions made for components on each side of the vr-tube? What benefit would those extra components provide or would it just increase cost for no noticeable benefit?

    Ultimately I'm just trying to see if I should be paying the extra cost for this revision or looking for an even more complicated revision. I don't have the electrical engineering background to know. The ones I already bought with the vr-tube are all working great though. I have two 470s on each molex string with a wire temp of 93F in a 84F room. I don't have any of the risers without the vr-tube to test if the wires would be hotter without the additional component.

    im not sure, im not an electrician or expert, but there are more components on the boards that use the 6 pin connectors... but i cant find any of those here so i cant find out details about that.. you can see someone posted photos of those in that threat I posted above, go to page 6.

    honestly Id like to get my hands on some of those 6 pin powered risers so I can plug them directly into my 8pin to 8pin + 6pin cables that the GPUs run off of... but again like I said... can't find them here.. and not about to try to imort them here when they are more than likely made here.. I will continue to try to find them though.
    I already answered that in the 'other' riser thread.
    https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/comment/63668/#Comment_63668

    BTW you can find them on ebay and ali*
    thanks ill check ali/1688 again
    i dont use ebay
    Jukebox said:

    blackwolf said:



    alright, so you suggest not wasting the extra 1$ on the version with the diode... just go for the version without is just as safe?

    No sense at all. This Zener is present only because riser uses SP1084 version that not have adjustment resistors integrated in.

    The reason is very simple.
    Some manufacturers have "fixed voltage" version of SP1084 on stock, some - not.
    Last ones need extra electronic parts (Zener diode in our case) to let riser work correctly. There is no any advantage at all - they just do their risers from electronic parts that they already have.

    Quality and functionality of these risers is equal.
    ok thanks for the input, actually the seller originally told me it was not-necessary also lol
Sign In or Register to comment.