Actually, I supported the soft fork, but there was some itching thought which I could not articulate until today. You are absolutely right that apathy should not drive the course of events but still, I am a bit uneasy with some few people having the power to decide what the recommended action should be. I mean in case a pool operator invested in the DAO, it is clear which action he/she would recommend..
Self-interest drove this soft fork and the integrity of the ETH blockchain is gone. Of course, the DAO investors will shout you down and proclaim this was the correct action and how proud they are of the community. The vocal minority prevails on a rushed fix.
Mob rules. No transaction will ever be safe as it can be forked if the "majority" wishes it so.
they just cant anything do right except make an illegala imoral campaign to basically force people to fork to bailout THEIR money which they invested in THEIR bad code and now they cant even fixit, hope the exploiter gets his earned money. 30% haircut people on a bad investment, wake up and smell the java
This is exactly the kind of reason why no rushed hackjob of a fork should be implemented. Coders need to take their time and make sure they get it right first. Don't we have until July 16th anyway before the attacker can access the dark dao ether? Take the time to code a fork that does what it's supposed to do, and only what it's supposed to do, and make sure it's not going to have a bunch of negative and unforseen consequences. What's the huge rush? I really hope the dev team/exchanges/pool owners don't push so hard when it comes time for the hard fork or then we're in really really big trouble.
@dr_pra Please stop influencing the soft fork by assuming non-voters would support the fork! This is insane. If 20% voted to support the fork, then use 20% of your hashing power to support it. This would be correct.
But basically if dwarfpool and any other 1 or 2 large pools decide to go ahead with the fork then everyone else's hands are tied. It is up to them to decide how they want to interpret the vote and it's pretty clear that most of the miners aren't going to bother to vote. The dwarfpool vote looked like more of a formality as it was only up for a couple of days and decided as a 'yes' after 10% voted yes and 3% voted no. I understand the pool owners need to appear neutral but they are probably under pressure from the devs and are obviously under pressure if dwarfpool decides to go one way or another.
On the flip side if 2 or 3 large pool owners decide that they will not implement the fork then there's not much the devs can do about it. It's basically up to a few people once those few people reach a consensus that is what's going to happen.
@bardacuda i agree but its really sad that the destiny of a great coin is in the hands of few people. who are they to ATTACK the network? i dont see how are the pool owners pressured by devs or whoever, whats there to lose, I just hope that @dr_pra isnt as immoral as dwarfpool owner/s
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying the pool owners are bad people, or the devs, or that the soft fork is a bad idea. All I am saying is that the soft fork needs to be done right. I don't think anyone wants the attacker to suddenly have control of over 3.5 million ether all of a sudden in a couple of weeks. There is a few weeks before anything needs to be done so there is no rush. All we need to is lock up the DAO funds within that time with a proper soft fork. There is any amount of time after that to figure out what to do about a hard fork and to properly test it and audit it, etc. Whether a hard fork happens to refund everybody, or the DAO funds remain locked up indefinitely don't matter right now. The decision about the soft fork is up to @dr_pra and @Atrides and a few others, but not necessarily because they want to be in charge of the decisions, but just because most miners are apathetic or lazy and so it rests on them.
All I am saying is that everyone needs to calm down, take a step back, and look at the big picture before rushing into anything. It is rushing out a faulty code that got is into this mess in the first place and the same reason the current soft fork is vulnerable. That is all.
Announcement: All pool mining nodes have been reverted to a non soft-fork version. Both pools are now safe from the identified DOS attack vector.
These kinds of decisions deserve a NEW THREAD. This is a HUGE topic.
Hiding this in the 4th page of replies is making it very difficult to find. I use your pool and don't even know what you're doing. The only way I discovered what was happening was by reading your competitor's home page. At least they put an announcement up. You don't communicate very well. (Edit: Decided to stop mining with your pool.)
Additionally... any large pool owner is making the decision... without approval from the miners. You could use this advanced knowledge to do something bad like short ETH. Dwarfpool/ethpool/ethermine should not make that decision without discussing with the community or announcing in advance. It's not fair that essentially two people can boycott the soft fork (even if it is for good reason.) This causes the price of ETH to drop which you could profit from because you knew the change was coming in advance. (I'm not saying you did this, as I don't know. I definitely don't like the idea that you have that much power and could do this if you choose.)
Let's talk about how you could communicate better:
For example you have a giant banner on my stats page telling me about your new Beijing server. Why don't you make announcements like that about not going through with the soft fork? Not going through with the soft fork has a massive impact. It temporarily affects the ETH price for everyone that owns, mines, or trades ETH... A new Beijing server only affects a portion of your pool's miners.
Dwarfpool isn't perfect either. They have the announcement on their homepage. (Eth/ether doesn't even have that) The homepage isn't the optimal place. Most miners don't check the homepage. They check their stats page more often.
Announcement: All pool mining nodes have been reverted to a non soft-fork version. Both pools are now safe from the identified DOS attack vector.
These kinds of decisions deserve a NEW THREAD. This is a HUGE topic.
Hiding this in the 4th page of replies is making it very difficult to find. I use your pool and don't even know what you're doing. The only way I discovered what was happening was by reading your competitor's home page. At least they put an announcement up. You don't communicate very well. (Edit: Decided to stop mining with your pool.)
Additionally... any large pool owner is making the decision... without approval from the miners. You could use this advanced knowledge to do something bad like short ETH. Dwarfpool/ethpool/ethermine should not make that decision without discussing with the community or announcing in advance. It's not fair that essentially two people can boycott the soft fork (even if it is for good reason.) This causes the price of ETH to drop which you could profit from because you knew the change was coming in advance. (I'm not saying you did this, as I don't know. I definitely don't like the idea that you have that much power and could do this if you choose.)
Let's talk about how you could communicate better:
For example you have a giant banner on my stats page telling me about your new Beijing server. Why don't you make announcements like that about not going through with the soft fork? Not going through with the soft fork has a massive impact. It temporarily affects the ETH price for everyone that owns, mines, or trades ETH... A new Beijing server only affects a portion of your pool's miners.
Dwarfpool isn't perfect either. They have the announcement on their homepage. (Eth/ether doesn't even have that) The homepage isn't the optimal place. Most miners don't check the homepage. They check their stats page more often.
So you think that they should wait and discuss it out with the community? Wait for approval from miners? You realize that there was a major vulnerability with the soft fork? If they waited that could have ended very bad for all of us.
@you_morons If you don't like your pool op decision - move to another pool or mine solo. Pools are private, not democracies - ergo you have NO rights on their business. Pool ops are being courteous however and are offering voting for whoever is interested to do so, but at the end they take a decision for the cattle that don't care (and for the caring cattle too if they wish). If it were I that had a pool I won't even ask. Don't like it? - move to another pool or mine solo.
@you_morons If you don't like your pool op decision - move to another pool or mine solo. Pools are private, not democracies - ergo you have NO rights on their business. Pool ops are being courteous however and are offering voting for whoever is interested to do so, but at the end they take a decision for the cattle that don't care (and for the caring cattle too if they wish). If it were I that had a pool I won't even ask. Don't like it? - move to another pool or mine solo.
Except the pool owner of one of the two largest pool controlling the whole freaking blockchain can make a decision against the vote of his users... and know that this decision is going to cause ETH price to go down. He could then sell short ETH on Poloniex making even more profits for himself.
There are two people who have this much power: Dwarfpool and @dr_pra
That is too much power in the hands of two people.
Yes I moved to a different pool. I moved to one not controlled by the other two.
We need a few more people to wake up and not be lemmings.
This is the point. You don't realize it but the soft fork was cancelled. Due to a potential exploit that existed with the soft fork Dwarfpool and ETH/Ethermine decided to stop the soft fork.
@mksmart he kinda earned it, call it a sort of bug bounty, there is a great lesson to be learned here but Im affraid the wrong, miss-informed, ill-informed and greed driven people could potentially drive Ethereum as a protocol to the ground and for what, for 1 "precious" BAD INVESTMENT. Forgive them Ethereum for they know not what they are doing
Comments
Mob rules. No transaction will ever be safe as it can be forked if the "majority" wishes it so.
For more information on the identified dos vulnerability see: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/06/28/security-alert-dos-vulnerability-in-the-soft-fork/
Keeping the soft fork version in place will open up a dos vector against our mining nodes and thus interfere with our mining operation.
We will inform you as soon as the switch back to the non soft fork version has been completed.
On the flip side if 2 or 3 large pool owners decide that they will not implement the fork then there's not much the devs can do about it. It's basically up to a few people once those few people reach a consensus that is what's going to happen.
i agree but its really sad that the destiny of a great coin is in the hands of few people. who are they to ATTACK the network? i dont see how are the pool owners pressured by devs or whoever, whats there to lose, I just hope that @dr_pra isnt as immoral as dwarfpool owner/s
The decision about the soft fork is up to @dr_pra and @Atrides and a few others, but not necessarily because they want to be in charge of the decisions, but just because most miners are apathetic or lazy and so it rests on them.
All I am saying is that everyone needs to calm down, take a step back, and look at the big picture before rushing into anything. It is rushing out a faulty code that got is into this mess in the first place and the same reason the current soft fork is vulnerable. That is all.
agreed!
Hiding this in the 4th page of replies is making it very difficult to find. I use your pool and don't even know what you're doing. The only way I discovered what was happening was by reading your competitor's home page. At least they put an announcement up. You don't communicate very well. (Edit: Decided to stop mining with your pool.)
Additionally... any large pool owner is making the decision... without approval from the miners. You could use this advanced knowledge to do something bad like short ETH. Dwarfpool/ethpool/ethermine should not make that decision without discussing with the community or announcing in advance. It's not fair that essentially two people can boycott the soft fork (even if it is for good reason.) This causes the price of ETH to drop which you could profit from because you knew the change was coming in advance. (I'm not saying you did this, as I don't know. I definitely don't like the idea that you have that much power and could do this if you choose.)
Let's talk about how you could communicate better:
For example you have a giant banner on my stats page telling me about your new Beijing server. Why don't you make announcements like that about not going through with the soft fork? Not going through with the soft fork has a massive impact. It temporarily affects the ETH price for everyone that owns, mines, or trades ETH... A new Beijing server only affects a portion of your pool's miners.
Dwarfpool isn't perfect either. They have the announcement on their homepage. (Eth/ether doesn't even have that) The homepage isn't the optimal place. Most miners don't check the homepage. They check their stats page more often.
https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/06/28/security-alert-dos-vulnerability-in-the-soft-fork/
hey there hitler, ease up on the rage
There are two people who have this much power:
Dwarfpool and @dr_pra
That is too much power in the hands of two people.
Yes I moved to a different pool. I moved to one not controlled by the other two.
We need a few more people to wake up and not be lemmings.
This in turn has caused ETH/DAO price drop.
he kinda earned it, call it a sort of bug bounty, there is a great lesson to be learned here but Im affraid the wrong, miss-informed, ill-informed and greed driven people could potentially drive Ethereum as a protocol to the ground and for what, for 1 "precious" BAD INVESTMENT. Forgive them Ethereum for they know not what they are doing
I am talking about the market price, I have more than 900 ether I had purchased for $17