Ethereum Mining Pool Hub - 0% Fee, pays all kind of mining rewards, supports all miner programs

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Comments

  • dlehenkydlehenky Posts: 2,249Member ✭✭✭✭
    I asked dr_pra at ethermine/ethpool directly if stale blocks (all -1), which his pool responds to with "accepted", are in fact also credited to the miner. He answered yes, they are accepted and credited to the miner as full pool "block" (solution/share) rewards.
  • workwork Posts: 2,084Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016
    @bitcanuck agreed. Rewarding n-1 blocks at full is easy and straight forward. Also easy to understand. This is what many other pools do already as well.

    I don't mind @MiningPoolHub's idea of n-x at x*y% tho. It's kinda neat and unique. Not a lot of benefit I can see beyond that tho. Might attract some people that like how the reward scheme more closely matches the ether pow reward scheme.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    @bitcanuck @dlehenky @work

    Thank you for precious suggestions.

    - I thought that one of you were saying "not" to reward n-2 shares. Sorry, I think I misunderstood. (Regarding pool implementation, it's not that difficult. It would need just few lines of code, few times of test only)
    - Thank you for ethermine/ethpool info. Actually I did know this policy few days ago by other thread.

    Maybe I'm too pedantic, obsessive about stale shares. I agree.
    There's two reasons.

    (1) Ethereum is not the only pool with uncles.
    As miningpoolhub is multipool, I had to consider other ethash based coins too. For example, Expanse uses 1 minute block time interval, stale share abusing/reward can make rather big difference. If I set ethereum's (n -1) share as same as (n - 0) share, then how about 1 minute late Expanse shares? It doesn't make sense.
    I didn't open Expanse pool yet, but this is one of the big concern why I want to make reward thing that works with all type of uncle coins. If the rule is fair, I thought that it should be worked with other block time coins. I hope you guys understand why I wanted to find the best solution.


    (2) The other community people I asked say about this issue too.
    They supports two opinions. "no stale share counting", "12.5% deduction by level".
    I had to mediate both suggestions in the middle, so it may look like little bit confusing.
    Sorry about that. They preferred "no stale share counting" slightly more but it seems like it's unacceptable from this community people.


    As aggregating all suggestions from both community,
    I think 12.5% deduction looks good.

    Do you agree about 12.5% deduction? I think it took quite few days, but we had come to final happy conclusion.

    Sorry for weak english. I pretend as I'm good but not that good. I know. :'(
  • dlehenkydlehenky Posts: 2,249Member ✭✭✭✭
    @miningpoolhub No worries on your english, my friend. Your sincerity comes through, nonetheless. :) I, for one, appreciate anyone who attempts a second (or third, or ...) language, since I am pitiful poor with anything other than my first, and only.

    I think the 12.5% deduction is a good compromise. I certainly didn't know you were trying to accommodate Expanse, as well. Since the block times are so dramatically different (I've seen Expanse drop to 2 minute block times when the network hash rate becomes thin) between ETH and EXP, wouldn't it make sense to simply test for the network when dealing with the uncles? The circumstances where ETH and EXP require different treatment should be very few, I would think, so it might be easier than try to develop one policy or algorithm that will always work for both. Just a suggestion.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    dlehenky said:

    @miningpoolhub No worries on your english, my friend. Your sincerity comes through, nonetheless. :) I, for one, appreciate anyone who attempts a second (or third, or ...) language, since I am pitiful poor with anything other than my first, and only.

    I think the 12.5% deduction is a good compromise. I certainly didn't know you were trying to accommodate Expanse, as well. Since the block times are so dramatically different (I've seen Expanse drop to 2 minute block times when the network hash rate becomes thin) between ETH and EXP, wouldn't it make sense to simply test for the network when dealing with the uncles? The circumstances where ETH and EXP require different treatment should be very few, I would think, so it might be easier than try to develop one policy or algorithm that will always work for both. Just a suggestion.


    @dlehenky

    Ethereum pool will be tested with 12.5% deduction first for few weeks. When mining reward changes much for each miner, or has bad effect, it will be rolled back.
    EXP will be tested also as you stated.

    Anyone can't be sure these things, so I will test, monitor for long time each case.
    Thanks.
  • workwork Posts: 2,084Member ✭✭✭✭
    @miningpoolhub cool. Let us know when you have crediting stale shares implemented. Will be interesting to test it.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    work said:

    @miningpoolhub cool. Let us know when you have crediting stale shares implemented. Will be interesting to test it.

    @work

    Sure.
    I will apply it within 24 hours each server one by one.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    New mining reward rule applied to all ethereum servers.
    Seems all good.
    I will monitor closely for 24 hours, and announce these changes officially.

    Thank you for your support and feedback.
  • workwork Posts: 2,084Member ✭✭✭✭
    @miningpoolhub looking good so far.

    I would be very interested to see some n-x share counts on the dashboard.
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member
    Usually I work with the qtminer which works fine and without any problems.

    But 3 days ago I changed to genoil 1.0.8 to see how it works and wether it gives better results. I´m connecting to the EU-servers.
    Unfortunately the genoil miner 1.0.8. stops working about twice a day or more.
    There are min. 3 different failure types:
    -it just stops
    -it crashs with a win7 stat saying, that ethminer isn`t working anymore
    -it loops, trying to reconnect, but doesn`t get into the mining-server

    My system is a Win7 64-bit, AMD Catalyst 15.7.1 for Win7 64-bit and 2 x R9 380 Black Edition with backplate (not Nitro). The genoil 1.08. miners settings are:

    setx GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0
    setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100
    setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
    setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
    setx GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100

    cd ethminer-0.9.41-genoil-1.0.8
    ethminer -G -S europe1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -O username.workername:password -G --farm-recheck 200 --cl-local-work 256 --cl-global-work 16384

    Any idea what can be improved to avoid the crashing?
    (I was in the genoil-forum and tried this and that but no avoiding the crashes.)

    Altough the genoil 1.0.8 looks nice and maybe gives better earnings, but I lost many hours with its crashes by now and thats of course not worth the general better earnings capabilities. In my opinion it should not be recommended atm.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    work said:

    @miningpoolhub looking good so far.

    I would be very interested to see some n-x share counts on the dashboard.

    @work
    Sure. It will be added soon.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    bitcanuck said:

    I like what I see so far:
    Your Valid 24,448
    Your Invalid 0 (0.00%)

    Next I'd like to see stale stats added to the dashboard.

    @bitcanuck

    I will add that too.
    Thank you for your support.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    @Palmzipper


    -it just stops

    Did you undervolt your gpu?
    I'm not sure what the problem is, but have seen similar issues when GPU doesn't work.

    Maybe trying other option would solve it.
    Try below command without optimization settings.
    ethminer -G -S europe1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -O username.workername:password


    -it crashs with a win7 stat saying, that ethminer isn`t working anymore

    ethminer would crash when network reconnection happens.
    https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/issues/32
    https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/issues/38

    It's quite hard to reproduce, but it's still not fixed.
    This is major different part between qtminer and ethminer. Maybe it's the core problem why you are experiencing issues with ethminer.


    -it loops, trying to reconnect, but doesn`t get into the mining-server

    Do you see "trying to reconnect" text from ethminer continually, but fail always?
    Does it connect to pool when you quit and restart the ethminer?
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member

    miningpoolhub


    -it just stops

    Did you undervolt your gpu?
    Thank you for your dedicated reply and supply!

    Yes, both GPUs are undervolted for 50mV (and mem-timing increased to 1499MHz and core freq. put down to 752MHz and cooled below 70°C).

    I can check wether normal GPU-voltage lets run genoils Ethminer 1.0.8 stable.
    But if so it means a 5% wattage increase. The german current is very expensive: 0.28Euro/KWh without german VAT. So genoil 1.0.8. should earn a 5% better sharing, too. Just to compete with the qtminer running undervolted.

    miningpoolhub
    Maybe trying other option would solve it.
    Try below command without optimization settings.
    ethminer -G -S europe1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -O username.workername:password

    I will try and report it.

    miningpoolhub


    -it crashs with a win7 stat saying, that ethminer isn`t working anymore

    ethminer would crash when network reconnection happens.
    https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/issues/32
    https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/issues/38

    It's quite hard to reproduce, but it's still not fixed.
    This is major different part between qtminer and ethminer. Maybe it's the core problem why you are experiencing issues with ethminer.
    I noticed your comments at the genoil-download page ;-) Unfortunately there is no explanation or solution by now.

    Here you can see the direct Win7 crash-log text of the Ethminer:

    Problemsignatur:
    Problemereignisname: APPCRASH
    Anwendungsname: ethminer.exe
    Anwendungsversion: 0.0.0.0
    Anwendungszeitstempel: 573467a1
    Fehlermodulname: MSVCR120.dll
    Fehlermodulversion: 12.0.21005.1
    Fehlermodulzeitstempel: 524f83ff
    Ausnahmecode: 40000015
    Ausnahmeoffset: 0000000000074a46
    Betriebsystemversion: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
    Gebietsschema-ID: 1031
    Zusatzinformation 1: c7c7
    Zusatzinformation 2: c7c7c53ab42ba3bc07ede86d44d3ebf0
    Zusatzinformation 3: 4ebd
    Zusatzinformation 4: 4ebd84f4b8876c184532b0ea88d48736

    miningpoolhub


    -it loops, trying to reconnect, but doesn`t get into the mining-server

    Do you see "trying to reconnect" text from ethminer continually, but fail always?
    you can see my log. just notice the time stamp. normal working ends 17:17:36
    and looping (at full wattage) runs until I noticed it in 17:46:14:

    m 17:17:31|main Mining on PoWhash #273ef5b3 : 41.94MH/s [A1215+8:R13+0:F0]
    m 17:17:33|main Mining on PoWhash #273ef5b3 : 41.94MH/s [A1215+8:R13+0:F0]
    m 17:17:35|main Mining on PoWhash #273ef5b3 : 41.94MH/s [A1215+8:R13+0:F0]
    i 17:17:36|stratum No new work received in 90 seconds.
    X 17:17:36|stratum Read response failed: Die Netzwerkverbindung wurde durch
    das lokale System getrennt
    i 17:17:36|stratum Reconnecting in 3 seconds...
    i 17:46:14|stratum Connecting to stratum server europe1.ethereum.miningpoolh

    miningpoolhub
    Does it connect to pool when you quit and restart the ethminer?

    Yes. I stopped the looping and closed the black processing window and started my batch-file new. That works always and got me reconnected to your EU-server.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    @Palmzipper

    Maybe trying qtminer temporarily would be better for you. I'll try to fix ethminer's reconnection bug but I don't believe that it can produce 5% more reward regarding the undervolt thing.

    Post edited by miningpoolhub on
  • workwork Posts: 2,084Member ✭✭✭✭
    I have all my rigs pointed here and everything is running great with the new pool updates. I would definitely reccomend MPH to anyone looking for a quality pool.

    Pool luck has been great recently too =]
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member

    @Palmzipper

    Maybe trying qtminer temporarily would be better for you. I'll try to fix ethminer's reconnection bug but I don't believe that it can produce 5% more reward regarding the undervolt thing.

    Actually I´m running the qtminer at night and genoil 1.0.8 during the day, when I´m around and can monitor it.
    There is a special error-handling batch-file (from the genoil-forum), too, which would restart genoil automatically in adjustable time intervals. I tried it and its works(but it looses a certain ammount of time for mining.
    (I can post it here, if someone wants it.)

    I will check with normal voltage wether the crashing of the ethminer stops, need some time for it.

    And I will look out for this funny behaviour regarding the reconnection.
    Yesterday I noticed a short error-reply (in the black window) when this problem occured I haven`t seen so far. Unfortunately I couldn`t make a screenshot or log it, it was too quick.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    work said:

    I have all my rigs pointed here and everything is running great with the new pool updates. I would definitely reccomend MPH to anyone looking for a quality pool.

    Pool luck has been great recently too =]

    @work

    Thank you for your feedback.
    Pool luck is not what we can guarantee but seems good for recent days.

    Dashboard showing n-stale share is still not available because it needs quite many things to be changed. Sorry for late.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭


    Actually I´m running the qtminer at night and genoil 1.0.8 during the day, when I´m around and can monitor it.
    There is a special error-handling batch-file (from the genoil-forum), too, which would restart genoil automatically in adjustable time intervals. I tried it and its works(but it looses a certain ammount of time for mining.
    (I can post it here, if someone wants it.)

    I will check with normal voltage wether the crashing of the ethminer stops, need some time for it.

    And I will look out for this funny behaviour regarding the reconnection.
    Yesterday I noticed a short error-reply (in the black window) when this problem occured I haven`t seen so far. Unfortunately I couldn`t make a screenshot or log it, it was too quick.

    @Palmzipper

    It would be helpful if that batch is posted here too for other miners.

    I'm trying to reproduce reconnection problem too. I once experienced it several times but not now. :o
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member
    Let me ask some question about the multi-algo, btw. mining by autoswitch.
    I would like to test it at MPH, but it looks a bit complicated or confusing to me how to do it, even after reading the FAQ on your site.

    1. I got hands on a free nice computer with a Nvidia gpu of 1GByte and another with 2 GByte ram. What would be the min. gpu ram necessary? (I know ETH needs min. 2 Gbyte atm) but what about the other coins, how much gpu ram do they need?

    2. Does the autoswitching choose automatically the most actual profitable coin? I didn`t notice where to set the basic coin I preferably would have the exchange to. Screenshot?

    3. Can you/someone perhaps tell me what coin combination best I should set for a new Nvidia gpu worker? Evtl. with a screenshot.

    4. How should the command line(s) look like to start this multi-algo autoswitch mining with 2GByte gpu ram (mining ETH, too) and with less than 2GByte gpu ram (not mining ETH) ?

    5. Other important considerations I´m perhaps missing?

    Sry, to bother with this many questions, but perhaps it helps others wondering about it, too.
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member

    @miningpoolhub
    It would be helpful if that batch is posted here too for other miners.

    I'm trying to reproduce reconnection problem too. I once experienced it several times but not now. :o


    Error-handling batch-file which restarts genoil automatically in adjustable time intervals:

    loopgenoil.bat
    ----------------------
    :loop1

    start genoil.bat
    timeout /T 3600

    taskkill /F /IM ethminer.exe

    timeout /T 25

    goto loop1
    -----------------------
    genoil.bat is your batch-file for mining.

    timeout /T 3600 means that every hour = 3600 sec. the ethminer task is killed and started new wether there was a crash or not.

    Of course you can adjust the timeout to a longer or shorter restart period.
  • Delle54Delle54 Hannover, GermanyPosts: 16Member
    I am running genoil 1.0.8 with a ASUS R9 280X DirectCU II gpu @normal voltage and 1070 MHz without any failures or connection problems.

    My batch-file:
    cd \
    cd programs\ethereum 0.9.41\release
    setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
    setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
    setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100
    ethminer.exe -G -S europe1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -O Delle54.R9280x:password -FS us-east.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -FO Delle54.R9280x:password

    Genoil switches between the two servers automaticly.

    I am very happy with MPH.
  • Delle54Delle54 Hannover, GermanyPosts: 16Member
    edited May 2016
    I have to correct my last statement -> my pc rebooted last night (probably because of genoil), but that is no big problem, since my bat-file is placed in the autostart menu and starts mining again.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    @Palmzipper

    Sorry for late reply.

    1. I got hands on a free nice computer with a Nvidia gpu of 1GByte and another with 2 GByte ram. What would be the min. gpu ram necessary? (I know ETH needs min. 2 Gbyte atm) but what about the other coins, how much gpu ram do they need?

    Other coins don't need big memory. Only ETH is sensitive about memory AFAIK.
    So, if your gpu doesn't work well with ETH, you'd better switch several algo except Ethash (ethereum).

    "NVIDIA - Blake-Vanilla, Groestl, Myriad-Groestl, NeoScrypt, Quark, Qubit, Skein, X11, X13, X15"
    seems good for that gpu.

    2. Does the autoswitching choose automatically the most actual profitable coin? I didn`t notice where to set the basic coin I preferably would have the exchange to. Screenshot?

    Yes, auto switching chooses the most profitable coin.
    You can see the current mining coin from each auto switch.
    https://miningpoolhub.com/?page=statistics&action=autoswitches
    Keep in mind that auto switch changes target coin only when it finds block. If it doesn't have such rule, it will have to jump many coins all the time.

    You can set final exchange coin at "Auto Exchange" page.
    https://miningpoolhub.com/?page=account&action=autoexchange (You need login)


    3. Can you/someone perhaps tell me what coin combination best I should set for a new Nvidia gpu worker? Evtl. with a screenshot.

    It depends on what nvidia gpu you will use. If your gpu mine ethash (ethereum) well, then you should go with
    "NVIDIA - Blake-Vanilla, Ethash, Groestl, Myriad-Groestl, NeoScrypt, Quark, Qubit, Skein, X11, X13, X15"




    If it does not work well with ethash (ethereum), then select below.
    "NVIDIA - Blake-Vanilla, Groestl, Myriad-Groestl, NeoScrypt, Quark, Qubit, Skein, X11, X13, X15"

    4. How should the command line(s) look like to start this multi-algo autoswitch mining with 2GByte gpu ram (mining ETH, too) and with less than 2GByte gpu ram (not mining ETH) ?

    for 2g gpu ram.

    :start
    ethminer --farm-retries 0 -U -S us-east1.ethash-hub.miningpoolhub.com:12020 -O username.workername:x -FS exit
    ccminer -r 0 -a groestl -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12004 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a myr-gr -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12005 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x11 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12007 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x13 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12008 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x15 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12009 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12012 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a qubit -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12014 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a quark -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12015 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a skein -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12016 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a vanilla -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12019 -u username.workername -p x
    timeout 1
    goto start


    for small memory gpu.
    :start
    ccminer -r 0 -a groestl -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12004 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a myr-gr -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12005 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x11 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12007 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x13 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12008 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a x15 -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12009 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a neoscrypt -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12012 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a qubit -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12014 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a quark -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12015 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a skein -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12016 -u username.workername -p x
    ccminer -r 0 -a vanilla -o stratum+tcp://hub.miningpoolhub.com:12019 -u username.workername -p x
    timeout 1
    goto start


    Only ethash line is removed.
    You have to set appropriate switch for workers.
    https://miningpoolhub.com/?page=account&action=hubworkers

    For example, select "Account's Default Job" as
    "NVIDIA - Blake-Vanilla, Ethash, Groestl, Myriad-Groestl, NeoScrypt, Quark, Qubit, Skein, X11, X13, X15",
    and override specific workers which has lower than 2GB ram gpu to
    "NVIDIA - Blake-Vanilla, Groestl, Myriad-Groestl, NeoScrypt, Quark, Qubit, Skein, X11, X13, X15"

    5. Other important considerations I´m perhaps missing?

    The reason why I didn't post and announce auto switching at ethereum forum is because ethminer sometimes crashes when network disconnects (this is auto switching signal) and hang your pc. It doesn't happen frequently but it would harm your revenue by making pc idle.
    The other reason is, ethereum's profitability is quite higher than other coins. Auto switching is not necessary these days.

    With lower than 2GB ram gpu, you can get benefit by auto switching except ethash (ethereum). Not recommended auto switching for bigger ram gpu currently.

    Sry, to bother with this many questions, but perhaps it helps others wondering about it, too.


    It's my pleasure to help miners on our pool. I think I have to improve FAQ page also.
    It took some time as I have to take some screenshots.
    Thanks.
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
    Delle54 said:

    I am running genoil 1.0.8 with a ASUS R9 280X DirectCU II gpu @normal voltage and 1070 MHz without any failures or connection problems.

    My batch-file:
    cd \
    cd programs\ethereum 0.9.41\release
    setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
    setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
    setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100
    ethminer.exe -G -S europe1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -O Delle54.R9280x:password -FS us-east.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535 -FO Delle54.R9280x:password

    Genoil switches between the two servers automaticly.

    I am very happy with MPH.

    @Delle54

    Thanks!
    We'll improve the pool continually.
  • PalmzipperPalmzipper GermanyPosts: 24Member

    @miningpoolhub
    It's my pleasure to help miners on our pool. I think I have to improve FAQ page also.
    It took some time as I have to take some screenshots.
    Thanks.

    Thank you very much for the detailed description. I think I can handle it, now ;-)

    MPH ist great!
  • miningpoolhubminingpoolhub Posts: 308Member ✭✭
  • shutfushutfu Posts: 320Member ✭✭
    what is difference between porns 20535 and 20536 when connecting with claymore (only uses stratum, readme says to use 20536) or with genoil in -S mode?
  • shutfushutfu Posts: 320Member ✭✭
    also @Delle54 , your failover server in your commandline is wrong, it is missing the 1 in "us-east1", it should read "us-east1.ethereum.miningpoolhub.com:20535"
  • Delle54Delle54 Hannover, GermanyPosts: 16Member
    @shutfu : I just tested "us-east" and "us-east1". Both work.
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