ethpool.org - Predictable solo mining pool

dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
Initially we re-launched ethpool.org as a simple solo mining pool where the block finder gets 100% of the block reward. We could confirm quite quickly that mining ethereum is subject to an incredible high variance. A miner with 25MH/sec found two blocks in one hour (lucky guy) while miners with +200MH/s did not find a block during a full day.

So we tried to combine the best of solo and pool mining into a new payment concept. The new concept awards the full block reward to the miner who did contribute the most unrewarded work to the pool.

The system works like this, every miner starts with 0 credits at the pool. Each submitted valid share increases the credits of a miner by the difficulty of the share. When a block is found the miner holding the most credits will be credited the full block reward and his credits will be reset to 0. This way each miner will receive a predictable payment as soon as his credits at the pool equal the current block difficulty (+/- a few credits caused by the global variance of the pool). You can see the current ranking table at ethpool.org/credits.

As a side benefit, the pool never holds on to any funds. Block rewards are paid in full (meaning uncles & transaction) immediately after 10 confirmations.

Check us out at ethpool.org! Pool fee is currently 0%!
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Comments

  • BripsBrips Posts: 52Member
    This is a really weird pool !
    there is a pool's hasrate currently about 9 GH/s and nothing mined from 45min !

    my miner work well on the pool, no problem of connection...so where goes the ether ?!
    everybody can check here :
    https://etherchain.org/account/0x4bb96091ee9d802ed039c4d1a5f6216f90f81b01

    No block was mined from an hour..
    but it's still active... http://ethpool.org/

  • MrYukonCMrYukonC Posts: 626Member ✭✭✭
    Brips said:

    This is a really weird pool !
    there is a pool's hasrate currently about 9 GH/s and nothing mined from 45min !

    my miner work well on the pool, no problem of connection...so where goes the ether ?!
    everybody can check here :
    https://etherchain.org/account/0x4bb96091ee9d802ed039c4d1a5f6216f90f81b01

    No block was mined from an hour..
    but it's still active... http://ethpool.org/

    I don't get it what your issue is? 10 GH/s can still experience wild variance. No blocks is mined in 45 minutes. So what? Do you also take exception when the pool mines 3 blocks in 10 minutes? :)

    I've been paid 4 times in the past 24 hours and that is all that matters.
  • BripsBrips Posts: 52Member
    wild variance on a pool with 9GH/s ? nothing in an hour ? ok ... perhaps, i was thinking that it's just weird when a pool of 4GH/s(half) mine a minimum of 2 block per hour.

    Paid are ok, but don't you ask yourself if is it possible that the pool use the hashrate given by miners to mine with another adresse just for an hour ?

    but you should have right, it should be the variance, i'm certainly paranoid :p
  • MrYukonCMrYukonC Posts: 626Member ✭✭✭
    Brips said:

    wild variance on a pool with 9GH/s ? nothing in an hour ? ok ... perhaps, i was thinking that it's just weird when a pool of 4GH/s(half) mine a minimum of 2 block per hour.

    Paid are ok, but don't you ask yourself if is it possible that the pool use the hashrate given by miners to mine with another adresse just for an hour ?

    but you should have right, it should be the variance, i'm certainly paranoid :p

    Well, I agree somewhat that with the higher hashrate, variance should be lower.

    Regardless, it is easy enough to estimate your daily earnings using any of the various online calculators and directly compare against what the pool is paying over a day (or longer). So far, it has been inline with what I would expect given my hashrate.
  • BripsBrips Posts: 52Member
    MrYukonC said:

    Brips said:

    wild variance on a pool with 9GH/s ? nothing in an hour ? ok ... perhaps, i was thinking that it's just weird when a pool of 4GH/s(half) mine a minimum of 2 block per hour.

    Paid are ok, but don't you ask yourself if is it possible that the pool use the hashrate given by miners to mine with another adresse just for an hour ?

    but you should have right, it should be the variance, i'm certainly paranoid :p

    Well, I agree somewhat that with the higher hashrate, variance should be lower.

    Regardless, it is easy enough to estimate your daily earnings using any of the various online calculators and directly compare against what the pool is paying over a day (or longer). So far, it has been inline with what I would expect given my hashrate.
    Yeah, you're right, i check with my give hashrate, i should earn 1.4 ether per day, in fact it is 1.0 ether /a day.
    So it's near from the expected calculation (70% of the estimate calculation).
  • MrYukonCMrYukonC Posts: 626Member ✭✭✭
    Brips said:

    MrYukonC said:

    Brips said:

    wild variance on a pool with 9GH/s ? nothing in an hour ? ok ... perhaps, i was thinking that it's just weird when a pool of 4GH/s(half) mine a minimum of 2 block per hour.

    Paid are ok, but don't you ask yourself if is it possible that the pool use the hashrate given by miners to mine with another adresse just for an hour ?

    but you should have right, it should be the variance, i'm certainly paranoid :p

    Well, I agree somewhat that with the higher hashrate, variance should be lower.

    Regardless, it is easy enough to estimate your daily earnings using any of the various online calculators and directly compare against what the pool is paying over a day (or longer). So far, it has been inline with what I would expect given my hashrate.
    Yeah, you're right, i check with my give hashrate, i should earn 1.4 ether per day, in fact it is 1.0 ether /a day.
    So it's near from the expected calculation (70% of the estimate calculation).
    Well, that is a fairly low rate of Ether, so I would expect that the % difference from actual vs estimated will vary greatly and result in a higher percentage difference than someone who is earning like 20+ Ether per day.

    Basically, 1.4 estimated Ether per day, is a very low sample size and makes it difficult to accurately test whether the pool is paying fairly, or not.

    Based on my rate of Ether (~20 per day), I say the pool is paying fairly. :)
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    Even with 10+ GH/sec a miner will experience certain variance. The pool sometimes mines 15 blocks per hour and sometimes only 3-4. Things are even worse during traditional solo mining, miners who should expect 1-2 blocks/day might go for days without a single block.

    Regarding cheating by the pool, certainly every pool could do that, at the end it is up to you to decide how much you trust the respective pool operator. We try to be as transparent as possible and provide an earning estimation for each miner on the miner's overview page. This way it is very easy to check if a miner receives what he is supposed to receive (+/- certain unknown factors like difficulty evolution and block time).
  • BripsBrips Posts: 52Member
    dr_pra said:

    Even with 10+ GH/sec a miner will experience certain variance. The pool sometimes mines 15 blocks per hour and sometimes only 3-4. Things are even worse during traditional solo mining, miners who should expect 1-2 blocks/day might go for days without a single block.

    Regarding cheating by the pool, certainly every pool could do that, at the end it is up to you to decide how much you trust the respective pool operator. We try to be as transparent as possible and provide an earning estimation for each miner on the miner's overview page. This way it is very easy to check if a miner receives what he is supposed to receive (+/- certain unknown factors like difficulty evolution and block time).

    thanks :)
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015
    We have added a new support portal. In case you encounter any issue you can now simply create a support ticket at the pool: https://ethpool.freshdesk.com

    Also we have added individual charts for each worker. Check it out!
    Post edited by dr_pra on
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015
    We have improved the hashrate reporting, it should be now more accurate compared to before.

    Also the credit accounting scheme has changed to distribute the rewards in a fairer way. 100% of the block reward will be credited to the miner who did contribute the most work to the pool. Rewards are paid immediately after 10 confirmations.

    Each submitted share will increase the credit of the miner who submitted the share by the share difficulty.

    The miner who accumulated the most credits will receive the reward of the next mined block and his credits will be reset to his current credits minus the credits of the runner up miner.

    Usually a miner will receive a full block reward as soon as his accumulated credits equal the current block difficulty (+/- pool luck).

    Also we have set the pool fee to 1% in order to cover server cost and further pool developments.
  • xyberxyber Posts: 26Member
    Hi, may I know why the pool sometimes give us a block worth 3 eth only?
    I thought 1 block reward will be given to us and it should have 5 eth.
  • ordoeordoe tehranPosts: 132Member ✭✭
    xyber said:

    Hi, may I know why the pool sometimes give us a block worth 3 eth only?
    I thought 1 block reward will be given to us and it should have 5 eth.

    3 Eth is around the reward of an uncle. not a block.
    Read more https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/2262/eli5-whats-an-uncle-in-ethereum-mining
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    We are thinking on adapting the payment scheme to enable low hashrate miners to receive their rewards faster. Right now a miner with ~30MH/s will need to mine 5-6 days on the pool till he receives a full block reward of 5 Ether.

    The idea is to split the block reward into x (can be from 2 - 5) equal parts and reward the first x miners having the most credits accumulated. This means miners will move faster trough the credits ranking table and also get their rewards faster.

    The target of the payment scheme is still to hold no funds in the pool for more than a few minutes, essentially keeping the pool's balance close to zero at all times.

    Any opinions on this approach?
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    We have deployed a new version of our backend which should provide better stability and a lower uncle rate. As a Christmas bonus we have reduced our fees to 0%.

    Happy mining!
  • EastwindEastwind Posts: 107Member
    edited December 2015
    dr_pra said:

    We are thinking on adapting the payment scheme to enable low hashrate miners to receive their rewards faster. Right now a miner with ~30MH/s will need to mine 5-6 days on the pool till he receives a full block reward of 5 Ether.

    The idea is to split the block reward into x (can be from 2 - 5) equal parts and reward the first x miners having the most credits accumulated. This means miners will move faster trough the credits ranking table and also get their rewards faster.

    Any opinions on this approach?

    How do you deduct the existing credits? How do you ensure it is fair?
    I think the current payment scheme is the best. You new payment scheme will make it like traditional pool.
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    With the recent spike in difficulty we are preparing a modification to the payment scheme. We are planning to divide the block reward by 2 and send the rewards to the top 2 miners in the credit list. The credits for both miners are then reset using the current scheme (miners credits - runner up credits).

    This will distribute the block rewards faster and slow miners will not wait that long before they receive their reward. As the additional transaction fees are paid by the pool there is no disadvantage for high hashrate miners.

    We will let you know as soon as the update has been put in place.
  • zorvalthzorvalth Posts: 174Member
    @dr_pra , I got latency around 2 seconds using qtminer. I'm in europe, is that normal?

    Thanks!
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    as mentioned already in the support ticket, qt miner does not display pool latency. What you see is your hashrate average over 2 seconds! Pool latency from Europe is around 50ms.
  • EastwindEastwind Posts: 107Member
    Do you have a server in Asia?
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Posts: 533Member ✭✭
    edited February 2016
    I still don't get this pool and it's pay structure. So it's more like a solo pool where only the finder gets the eth? Why not just solo mine directly??
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    My experience shows that a distributed infrastructure does not benefit a lot. The uncle rate of the pool is already one of the lowest among all available pools. We used to have eu and Asia servers but did not see a significant reduction in the uncle rate of the pool.

    The payout structure is similar to solo mining but with a predictable payment. Traditional solo mining on ethereum is subject to an extremely high variance. Sometime it take more than 3 times longer to find a block compared to mining estimations. This pool addresses the issue by reducing the mining variance.

    One additional benefit of this payment scheme is that the pool essentially never holds significant amounts of Ether as blocks are paid out immediately. Contrary to other pools where the pool operators hold a large amount of Ether till the next payment.
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Posts: 533Member ✭✭
    Can you give me an actual real life example how your pool works. I just don't get the fancy description. Put it in layman's terms.

    What chance does someone with a small rig have to get any payment vs a large farm with 1PH for example? Won't the 1PH always trump the small miner with let's say 50MH or less?
  • MrYukonCMrYukonC Posts: 626Member ✭✭✭

    Can you give me an actual real life example how your pool works. I just don't get the fancy description. Put it in layman's terms.

    What chance does someone with a small rig have to get any payment vs a large farm with 1PH for example? Won't the 1PH always trump the small miner with let's say 50MH or less?

    Just go scroll through the "Credits" page on the pool's website and find a hashrate that is close to what you think yours is. Go to that miner's page and look at their "blocks" tab. You will see the blocks they've been paid for and the frequency with which they've occurred. That will tell you everything you need to know.
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Posts: 533Member ✭✭
    That talks about credits and such. No real, hard info as examples.
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Posts: 533Member ✭✭
    I just don't understand how on that pool someone can compete with a farm of 40x their share rate....?

    I mine on pools with SHA256 and altcoins but just don't get this pool payment scheme.
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2016
    Let me try to give you an example:

    You mine on the pool and your miner finds a share with a difficulty of 2000000 and submits this share. The pool then checks if the share is valid and if it is valid it will increase the credits of your account by the difficulty of the share. This is how all miners gather credits on the pool. Miners with a higher hashrate will gather credits faster compared to miners with a lower hashrate.

    Now if the pool finds a block the full block reward goes to the miner that currently has the most credits accumulated. After that the credits of the miner that received the block reward are reset.

    The current credit ranking of all miners on the pool is displayed on the Credits page. The miner on the top of the list will receive the full reward of the next mined block.

    It is essentially similar to a car lap race where each time a car (=miner) finishes a lap it gets an reward. Faster cars (=miners having a higher hashrate) will make more laps and receive more rewards compare to slower cars, but eventually also the slower car will finish a lap and receive its reward.

    I am sorry that the concept is not that easy to explain. Also it is quite unique for ethereum mining as the block time of other currencies would not make such a system viable.
  • happytreefriendshappytreefriends Posts: 533Member ✭✭
    Ahh ok. So i was right. The higher hash rate 'earners' will see most of the 'credits' on your pool and earnings. TY , but I'll stick to solo mining which even though is random, it still gives me more of a warm and fuzzy feeling of getting paid.
  • dr_pradr_pra Posts: 445Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, high hasrate miners will get obvioulsly more rewards compared to low hashrate miners. Everything else would be an unfair distribution of mining rewards.

    Another benefit of the pool compared to solo mining is that you are able to verify that your miner is setup correctly. Some miners experience problems with their dag files which cause them to produce invalid blocks. This is quite difficult to detect during traditional solo mining.
  • EastwindEastwind Posts: 107Member
    After we receive so many 2.5 ether, when we want to send out those ethers, we have to pay double the amount of the fees. Is that right?
  • dlehenkydlehenky Posts: 2,249Member ✭✭✭✭
    @dr_pra : If you are solo mining and have a bad DAG, or whatever other kind of anomaly you can think of, and produce bad results, you will get a "FAILURE GPU produced ... blahblahblah" log message. Of course, you have to know enough to look for them, but it isn't "quite difficult to detect", in my experience.

    -Best Care
    David
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